Creepy man on bus, what should DD have done?

[SheWoreYellow]

DD has had this a couple of times. Or similar.

She’s 14.

Last night, 5pm, getting a bus home from town she sits at the back of the almost empty bus. Downstairs. Three stops before hers a man comes and sits next to her. Odd, as the bus is empty. One stop before hers she goes and stands near the front but doesn’t press the button. He goes too. They go past that stop, then she presses the button for her stop and gets off. He gets off too. She sits at the bus stop. He sits there for a minute and then goes off in the opposite direction to our house. She then calls me and walks home.

I said she should have texted me so I could meet her at the bus stop, but she was worried he would see what she was texting. If she had said anything to the bus driver, what would he have done? I suppose between them they could have asked if he was getting off at the next stop and then she would have done the opposite. I want us to have a plan. I suppose she could have texted “meet me off the bus [codeword]”

Poor DD.
Agree suggest that she sits on the end/ aisle seat where available, and if a creep sits too close on an empty bus move to stand next to the driver and say 'I'm going to stand here because that man is making me feel uncomfortable.
as she's getting off the bus she can share her location with you via WhatsApp.

Tell the bus driver that she wants to get off at a stop but is worried about the man. He probably would've at least said something to him.
Text you or even better call you on the bus to meet her at the bus stop.

So awful that she has to go through this. Also report to police, he's probably got form for it. They have cctv on buses. They will take it seriously we had a similar incident recently and he went on to do worse!

Most buses have CCTV these days. If I'm feeling unsafe (I get public transport home late at night from work regularly) I go sit right in front of a camera. If I'm still feeling unsafe I call someone and they walk me home on the phone. In your daughter's case, I'd have called whilst still on the bus and very loudly so the man and the bus driver could hear, 'mum/dad, I'm on the bus, can you come meet me at the bus stop, I don't feel safe' it takes guts as it's somewhat confronting.

It's very shit isn't it. We say it doesn't matter where you sit/what you do/what time it is but the reality is we need to also protect ourselves by not sitting at the back/by the window etc. I wish we had sanctions for creeps to stop them ever being brave enough to escalate.
My dd once stood at a bus stop in school uniform listening to the two men in a van discussing kidnapping and raping her in a 'banter' way. I mean, wtf. It makes me furious how we have to live.

1 Don't sit near the back. Go nearer the front, nearer the driver, and close to a CCTV camera. And yes, she should sit on the outside/aisle seat. If nothing else, it's more visible to the driver.

2 You could agree a codeword; for example if she texts you COTTAN it means you need to meet her. (Line of Duty in-joke entirely deliberate.) Or a loud and very obvious phone call asking to be met, as per pp.

3 It's not ideal for her to be hanging around the bus stop waiting for the guy to go away. It extends her potential risk. She needs a strategy for when she gets off the bus; whether that's heading into a nearby cafe or supermarket, or having someone meet her there. Hovering at the stop hoping he'll bugger off isn't a good strategy; at some point he may not.

And 3. Get her into self-defence classes. A good self-defence class isn't just about fighting someone off; they also teach subtler things about stance, posture (stuff that could subconsciously deter a potential attacker) and also how to run away most efficiently. It's good training for all teenagers, not just girls, and can be a great confidence booster and way to meet/hang out with other teens too. (DOI: I'm a personal trainer and colleagues of mine run these kinds of courses, specifically for teens. They're very popular.)

When this happened to me as a young teenager I immediately said excuse me and moved to another part of the bus. I'd advise her to do something like that in future.

I know it feels rude, or at least I did at the time, but we're often too polite about these things.

As this is so common the bus companies should work out and publicise a policy for lone travellers in these situations and train their drivers accordingly. Assuming they haven't already. Bus stops and/or the walk home from them can be lonely.
Didn't some police spoke-numpty tell women to flag down a bus after Sarah Everard?
This kind of thing happened to me when I was a child, always targeted by the creepy bus guy. I'm unsurprised it's still happening.

She needs to know she owes strangers nothing. Not her tone, not her politeness and definitely not her silence. Get a code that she can text that means she needs to be met.

As a 40+ female I am happy for a younger girl to pretend to know me if they need ti get away from a creep. I intervened once when I girl was-being pestered by Mr ‘I’m just being friendly’. I smiled brightly and said ‘hello Sarah love, wow it’s been ages since I’ve seen you. How’s your mum? Oh excuse me mate can I take your seat as this is someone I know? There is a free seat over there!’ He couldn’t say no without being obvious. The girl said thanks.

She shouldn't have to do this but might feel safer sitting near the driver with a bag on the seat beside her to block him from sitting next to her. If she sees him again and he behaves creepily, she could call you and say, loudly, 'Dad, the creepy man is on the bus again, trying to get close to me, please can you come and collect me from the bus stop?' Make sure he overhears.

I don't really know what you can do other then always give her a lift
I was slaughtered on here last week for saying it's dangerous to take the bus. Lots of posters agreed I was unreasonable to not want my teenager to take a bus if I could avoid it- but this is the reality OP and it's grim
So sorry to hear

We are so conditioned to be polite and put creepy men’s feelings before our own. Sadly your daughter needs to forget politeness or worry about over reacting.

Christina Edkins was murdered by a ‘creepy man on a bus’ whilst travelling to school. Girls need to know that they are NOT over reacting in such situations.

Sadly women do not live in a world where we can live freely and without fear. We need to adapt our behaviours to keep ourselves as safe as possible, and even then it is only risk reduction, not complete mitigation.

If this were my dd I would tell her, very firmly that if this happens again (as soon as something happens that seems strange like a man sitting next to her on an empty bus) she is to ring me straight away and ask me to come and meet her - and to say it clearly and loudly so the creep can hear.

The best thing we can do for our daughters is teach them to be assertive and not to feel embarrassed to let someone know if they are feeling uncomfortable or threatened in any way. I would tell her not to give a crap about how the person who is making her uncomfortable feels - it doesn’t matter if it’s a misunderstanding- she feels how she feels and that is enough.
I would also tell her she should alert the driver to the situation in future - they will know what to do and I’m sure any decent bus driver would ensure your dd was safe and not leave them alone.

Fucking arsehole men.

Thank you so much everyone.

I think together we can put together some really good ideas for what she can do.

I don’t know why she didn’t want to phone/text me, whether it was fear or worried about his feelings. I’ll ask her.

Straight away it’s clear she should be sitting on the aisle side of the seat if the bus isn’t busy. I’ve also told her she should have gone into the petrol station rather than waiting at the bus stop. Although waiting wasn’t a bad thing to do, it’s on a busy road compared to if she started to walk home.

I can always see her location so I think she needs a way of comfortably asking ‘come and meet me’.

Luckily she was just in town meeting a friend, no regular time, but she’s done the same today and I’ll meet her from the bus stop.

This happened to my DD when she was a student and many miles from home. Man got on bus, sat down by her and started to feel her up. She moved seat. Same man gets on several days running.

We, miles away, are frantic about this and instruct her not to get off and walk to her accommodation so that he can follow her. Bus company informed and plan set up for her to talk to the driver who will be aware of what is happening. DD has cause to go to driver, who just shrugs and says it is nothing to do with him.

Police involved and eventually arrested him at bus stop in a dramatic chase in which they dragged him to the ground. Big sighs of relief all round. Until the next day when police phone to say they have released him with a caution as it is a first offence. DD in tears.

Luckily he did not appear there again - but who knows where he went and which other women were harassed?

It is sickening.

Report him, that is harassment. They will have CCTV and did he take on using a card? They can track him.

Tell her to always it in an aisle seat or put her bag down.

Men are such fucking pigs! I hope she feels better.

It's so depressing and infuriating and giving me the absolute RAGE that men still continue to do this to girls and women. I'm now in my 60s and nobody bothers with me, but I went through so much of this in the late 1960s and all through the 1970s, and yes, they calculate on their victim being polite, or shy, or too frightened to be able to react.

I had this happen ten years ago, man sat next to me on a bus with a bag on his lap and he had his arm under the bag to reach and touch my leg.
I completely froze in fear when i realised what was happening and didnt want to move until i got to my stop so I knew i could run home. I called the police and the case was ongoing.

I was determined not to stop it letting me get the bus and a few weeks later the same man got on and did it again, only this time I moved, and called the police and same as you, dramatic police swoop on him.

While we were awaiting trial, can you believe, a different man on a different bus did the same tactic - bag on lap with hand underneath to touch my thigh - I quickly snapped a picture, got off, called the police. He was arrested and went straight to prison as he was a previously convicted sex offender.

Meanwhile, I get dragged to court where CCTV shows this man seemingly following me for weeks. His alibi of why he randomly got off the bus miles from home when he heard me call the police was paper thin.
But they were NOT allowed to use the other case with the sex offender as any kind of evidence.
They were able to say I was lying because, why didnt I move? Why didnt I call for help while being assaulted?

He was found not guilty.

If you google it, this happens frequently.

You poor thing - so traumatic and never forgotten.

The code word on the phone is a good idea if DD is uncertain/concerned that ringing you or texting might exacerbate matters. A lot of PPs have made the point that sudden verbal aggression often scares pervs off, it often does, but some of them like to cause upset and not everyone feels able to tell a random stranger to fuck off, which is exactly what these lads are banking on. Also, you don’t know what they’d do next. So I’d have done what your daughter did but when I got off the bus and sat and he sat down too, is when I would have started to worry. He was clearly up to something. For that reason I would also recommend buying DD a personal attack alarm. My dad gave me one when I went to uni and honestly, she’ll probably never need it but they are small, legal, bonkers loud and a great way of alerting witnesses to your plight if you feel it’s getting out of hand. It also gives people nearby a massive fright if they don’t know it’s coming and that second or so of catching him off guard could be the difference between a bad situation and safe home.

In future (let's hope there is not a repeat) Tell her to always sit as near the driver as poss. She should let the driver know if she is uncomfortable if the guy still sits near her. She must also be a lot more vocal. Imagine if he had tried it on a right gobby cow, he would have shit his pants. Women and girls need to find their 'voice' now.

Doesn't have to be sweary, just "leave me alone" "I do not want your attention". But deffo tell the driver.

Admittedly when I was young I was not gobby! I got old men breathing down my next humming a tune "I christened The dirty old men tune". They would also put their hand over mine on the pole. Yeucch! So vile!

I know you’re asking for future strategies but it’s worth reminding her that she did nothing wrong. She and you and I and nearly everyone who’s ever been a young girl/woman has had something like this happen to them and felt awkward, uncomfortable, unsafe and unsure how to handle it without making things worse. Second guessing how you dealt with it afterwards is completely natural too. Having a strategy like taking the aisle seat helps but it’s nothing she’s caused or is responsible for.

Freezing is a common reaction and it’s appalling that it’s used to cast doubt on a victim’s evidence.

THIS.

Asking what she 'should' have done implies there's a right answer. There isn't. Everything we do to reduce risk is ad drop in the ocean compared to the tsunami of shit like this.

Poor girl. I remember those incidents constantly through my teens.

If she can muster up the brave I would suggest she tries to voice out loud, "empty bus and you sit here really?"

Basically give a image that you "will not come quietly"

If there are any grown women around when she gets off a bus polite approach them and say "sorry for bothering you but that man is following me"

Get her keys firmly in her hand.