Any other millennials fancy a moan?

[MoscowMules]

I know everyone says, the generation before you had it harder, all the way back to the Crimean War probably.

But

Is anyone else who is a millennial just a bit fed up? Fancy a pity party?

I reflected this evening on things that have happened.

I was born in the very early 90's, so am pretty much smack bang in the middle of the millennials.

We've lived under pretty much unstable governments in adulthood. Mainly conservative.

We've had 2 global recessions

An illegal War

Brexit

A global pandemic

Housing Crisis

Cost of living crisis

Possible collapse of the NHS or if not collapse it continues to limp on with poor care

Russia invade Ukraine and global tension.

To mention but a few calamities, and now here we are, trying to raise Alpha Generation typically, in the midst of all this.

I just feel a bit like "wtf" how much more can we take?

Yes there were good things on a social level, we were the first to learn and grow from the internet and become digital. LGB rights moved forward with same sex marriage, education improved especially with the removal of Section 28 from the education act towards the end of some of our schooling.

But my god! What a generation to belong to and try and navigate in.

I totally accept if I'm having a pity party for one here tonight though 🤣

I'm a millennial. I absolutely agree that housing is a serious issue for our generation and the generations that follow, in ways that certainty did not affect the Boomers. My parents bought their first house in 1981, a two bed semi new build. DF was a quarry labourer. DM worked part time in Debenhams.

Does anyone really believe that would be possible today? Both those positions today would be on minimum wage and zero hour contracts. Two beds by me start at around £135k and I live in a very cheap area.

However, I do think nostalgia plays a big part in our thinking. I often wonder why my boomer aunt posts so many memes on Facebook about how wonderful the 70s were, then I realised that I probably sound the same to my kids when talking about the 90s.

Previously generations had to contend with all sorts, including the very real threat of nuclear war. Now we're in a proxy war with Russia but no one is really talking about nukes.

It's easy to direct our anger at the previous generations. But we need to be more specific. Our anger should be directed at the super rich who have hoarded billions in the last couple of decades.

I completely agree.
I was born in 91 and it's been a rough ride 😂

One of my stand out memories from my childhood, was seeing the planes hit the twin towers.

@Blossomtoes not necessarily when it costs minimum £800 per week for care homes. If that's 2 people that will be a minimum of £1600 per week to live. People are living longer and require care for longer.

Every generation blames the one before....Rant away OP, but you're not going to get much sympathy I'm afraid.

I was born in 1984, so I'm an older millennial (I think) and I'm very grateful I wasn't born when my parents were. They left school at 14 to go working full time, as you had to pay for secondary school in those days (in Ireland) and my grandparents couldn't afford it. They also grew up with the suffocating catholic church who controlled society in those days - divorce, abortion, contraception, gay marriage etc. were all illegal until fairly recently.

I have had a much freer childhood, far more opportunities for travel and education than them, and access to information and entertainment that they could only dream of - and while I haven't been able to get on the property ladder, I have a fair prospect of inheriting in the next 20 years which will help. My parents were the first generation in their families to own houses, my grandparents all rented from the council, so they never inherited anything.

I often wonder what the next generation will blame us for....

And a tiny number of people end up in care homes. I think it’s something like 15% of those aged 85+, obviously a lot of people never get to 85.

I don't like pitting generations against each other (not saying OP did in her OP but there's been a bit of this throughout the thread).

I'm a millennial, born 88. My head hurts and I'm tired and can't gather all my thoughts on this right now 😂 but yes, house prices are a real issue at the moment and I think that if successive governments had addressed this, the cost of living crisis wouldn't be so awful right now. Housing is so expensive that there is just no 'give'.

But I think they are letting down all generations in different ways. The very young have been let down with the closure of sure start and the state of schools etc. I think the elderly are also let down badly. The state pension here is poor compared to other countries.

I think the WASPY women were let down badly. I don't really agree with arguments about 'equality' with men of their generation- women of that age group had to contend with awful sexism at work which massively affected what they could earn. Things aren't perfect now, almost 50 years after my mother started working.

My main thoughts are though that living standards have fallen a lot, things were better in the 90s/00s, and any country that sees such a decline in living standards with a government that shows such contempt for its citizens is a failed state.

I was born in the mid 70s, so Gen x I think. think there have always been peaks and troughs, politically, socially and economically. Now is not great, but that affects people across the generations and within each bracket there will be the haves and the have nots.

I was fortunate to buy young when house prices were affordable but did end up moving to a cheaper area in order to live in a safe area. I worked from a young age and then did an occupational degree as a mature student (and paid fees/ accrued debt). I work in the public sector so will have a reasonable pension at 67/8.

I do think there is more expectations regarding ‘necessities’ these days, although I don’t think that giving these up will magically mean people can buy property! But I lived in pretty awful shared houses in order to save up - I didn’t have a car, phone, holidays, video recorder, sky, mobile (saved up for a second hand tv). All of these things were around then. I didn’t eat out, meat was a rare treat - I lived on pulses and rice basically! I earnt 650 pcm as a health care assistant, my rent in a shared house was 300 pcm and I needed to save from that too. So with bus fares to work, food, bills, clothes etc etc, I was pretty badly off. Having said that, the 90s were awesome!

Swings and roundabouts I think!

I think the WASPY women were let down badly. I don't really agree with arguments about 'equality' with men of their generation- women of that age group had to contend with awful sexism at work which massively affected what they could earn. Things aren't perfect now, almost 50 years after my mother started working
This is my mum, she was encouraged to opt out of paying NI contributions as a married woman. Now she receives half of a state pension and she doesn’t have private pension as she was I’ll advised a took
out a product called a pension mortgage.
Until very recently she wasn’t entitled to any help as she had some savings, now she claims pension credit to top up half a state pension. No booking for her. She worked full time since the age of 15 apart from 5 years past time when she four hour evening shifts in a factory.

As a WASPI woman my idea of equality was that everyone should be able to claim the state pension at 60. Men tend to have shorter life spans and the 'equality' argument was just a ruse to increase the retirement age.

That should say no booming.

We employ labourers. All of them have mortgages. The lowest paid labourer in our firm is on £600 a week take home. Labourers do not earn minimum wage.

I always remember Tony Blair and the ‘education, education, education’ speech.
All you see as a result of this is an NVQ for everything that everyone else in your workplace has or everyone has the same degree. It has all become so diluted.
People need life skills, work experience and motivation and only a few professions need real HE academia.
That’s my millennial rant!

@Breakfastinbedonhols I agree with you there completely. I had really good A-level results and could have gone to university if I wanted but I really didn't want to. I remember literally in the first week of sixth form (this would have been late 2004) they were pushing university on us already, and showed us a video about routes post degree. One of them was a graduate training management programme at M&S. My immediate response to that was 'why on earth do you need a degree to do that?!' Surely someone who is intelligent, hardworking, good with people, and who knows the business at M&S from the shop floor up is the right person for that role? And those skills do not necessarily = a degree.

University is great but it isn't the only option. I get fed up with being looked at like I have two heads because I don't have a degree, although I think things are beginning to change.

I think there have always been peaks and troughs, politically, socially and economically.

The last 60 years have been a peak.
Nobody has actually experienced a real trough.
The 70s were mostly a walk in the park, hardly any unemployment, people like dressing it up as difficult for some odd reason.
The late 70s and 80s were more tricky with higher employment, but this was only 12% and the state was well placed to support the unemployed.
Much the same in the mid 90s.
Real wages have been falling since the 70s.
We have severed our economic benefits with Europe that have kept us in good shape since the 70s.
We are now entering an actual trough where the state is going to be unable to support people. The health system has already broken down which is unprecedented.
People seem to think that because of our Imperial history that we will always bounce back but this isn't the case. The reality is we're a small island with limited resources.
I'm about to retire abroad having benefitted from the good times, feel sorry for younger people.

I think you were being a bit naive back then with your assessment of a graduate management programme with M&S. Yes, those skills sets you mention are important but just one would imagine someone with a business management degree would be armed with law, economics, human resource management, operations, digital marketing, analytics, procurement etc, things you would not pick up on the shop floor to a sufficient level. Some accountant firms like PWC do offer full in house training to smart school leavers but a business degree from a good uni is an asset.

Wow, what an uplifting post 😂

@DanseAvecLesLoups I agree that if you want to go into certain roles a business degree is a good asset. And it's too many years ago for me to remember the details- if indeed it were a graduate training programme for those with specific degrees, then that is different- and you are right that perhaps I wasn't considering things fully.

However, as you say, some firms will offer on the job training- a degree isn't necessary. No one wants to invest in people- hence funnelling everyone to pay for their own degrees.

And I will add that I think an M&S graduate training programme was a really poor example to try to enthuse anyone to go to university 😁

I'm sorry I can't be more positive. But the reality is that when people talk about hard times over the past 60 or so years the state has always been able to support them. This has now been kicked away.

The reality is we now have the worst pensions in Europe and a broken health system. This is a disaster for a Country as wealthy as ours was.

I agree with the thrust of your message. The 50% of school leavers attending uni target was always absurd and the mantra of 'get a degree, any degree' over perhaps more vocational options has done a huge disservice to an awful lot young people. The harsh truth is, an awful lot of people should not be anywhere near university, not because they are 'stupid' but because they are 'academic', and there is a difference. Too many parents I felt were a bit snobby about learning a 'trade' and pushed their kids who had a couple of A level 'E's into some third rate uni to study a second rate degree that had little traction with wider industry and poor job prospects.

I'm slightly too old to be a millenial but do sympathise with the OP.

There's no doubt that the generations before mine had to put up with some awful things (especially women, anyone non-white, anyone gay etc) but it seems that in general the day to day standard of living is declining with every generation now. My PIL both left school at 14 with no qualifications and did manual work all their working lives. By living rent free with a family member (in a council house) for a year they were able to save a deposit to buy their own home. MIL was a SAHP (as was the expectation at the time) and FIL's wages covered the mortgage and bills etc. When DH and I bought our first home (both with degrees and full time jobs) houses on PIL street were selling for at least double our budget. Millenials who now have the same jobs as DH and I had then would not be able to get a mortgage on the first house we bought without help from parents etc.

As a woman, I wouldn't want the lack of options that my mother/MIL's generation faced but I feel that my generation and those younger have been sold a lie. We were told that if we worked hard at school, got a degree and a good job and put our all in to our careers we could have it all. The reality is that most of us have done exactly that but work longer hours than our parents, live in smaller houses in worse areas than our parents, couldn't afford to be SAHP even if we wanted to and will need to work until we drop. Milleniels and younger have the same, but with added student debt, even more expensive houses and Brexit

@lovelypidgeon I think this is the crux of it; there were lots of things that were crap about the past and I don't envy people having to deal with some of those issues. Particularly how sexist and awful things were for women (although things are declining in that area again- which I never would have expected). But lots of things improved, particularly for the working classes. I think you're right- people were sold a lie that if they worked hard and got a good job they would be able to have a good standard of living, own a home etc. it has become so difficult to buy a house, public services have been slashed to the bone (which is affecting everyone regardless of age I suppose), we don't have such good pensions as previous generations. I don't think it's whining or complaining without good cause to say that such a big decline in living standards feels unjust in a lot of ways- and for me it signifies a failed state with a government that has held us in contempt for the past 12 years. Labour were by no means perfect but they at least set up things that benefitted society, particularly the young with sure start and EMA and lots of other things too.

Not everyone of my age has a good pension. I do as I worked in the public sector. A lot of my acquaintances didn't bother as they were sold the lie of having an endowment mortgage and thought they would be getting huge payoffs. Some planned to downsize and live off the profits, not sure what they did. Some didn't get past living in social housing and doing rubbish jobs.

@loislovesstewie no that's true, I appreciate that. I suppose I was thinking of public sector a lot. I'm a public sector worker now and whilst it's good it's obviously nothing like it was. Tbh it's not my biggest gripe obviously things fluctuate over time but it's all the issues at once that are really hammering younger people right now, and the government's failure to think about the issues following the 2008 recession and what they should do to ensure good living standards for all.

On public sector specifically, I think being a police officer now (not my job btw) compared with those who joined around 40 years ago illustrates it. They signed up for their 30 years, with the promise of a good pension, their jobs weren't as bad as they are now because they were more of them and the job wasn't so complex as it is now. The salary now is diabolical for what they do, the pension has been cut right back. They have no right to strike either. I do think examples like this show how unjust it all is really.

And an awful of of IHT for the government.

Evening all,

Apologies manic day in work!!

I've read through all the replies, very interesting.

I don't blame the generation before by the way that's not what I'm saying, and I know other generations also had "rough patches" of history.

I suppose what I'm getting at, is "the doom and gloom" seems never ending.

For example the Cuban missile crisis was horrific for the world, and scary. But it came and went. Whilst this went on, the general public although living in fear, it didn't impact the immediate home economics for the individual family/person. You could still buy a house, get a pay rise and so even if world leaders were arguing about nukes.

I just feel like some of the things that have impacted us, have hit us massively in the pocket and it just feels like taking blow, after blow, punch after punch constantly.

And to to the PP that asked 3rd sector worker = working for the charity sector. I work for a charity 😊