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If you're a foregneir in UK...

155 replies

CrocoShriek · 03/01/2023 21:29

...what are the things you love and hate about living here?
I'll start (apologies, it's a bit England-centric)
Love:
-the countryside
-Sunday roasts
-London's melting pot
-low expectations on being fashionable ( I think!)

Hate:
-sticky Pub floors
-lack of proper blue sky in winter
-obsession with cards...thank you/ xmas/birthday etc.

OP posts:
LadyLolaRuben · 04/01/2023 20:51

HopelesslyOptimistic · 03/01/2023 22:21

Love

The size
We're an Island but so close to the rest of Europe
Seasons
The Arts
The Smell (you recognise when land having travelled)
Humour
The Pound
Mountains, Coastline, Cities,

Hate
Long Winter
Too much rain - ok not this year
Our Government
Messing with the clocks
Price of train fares
Nursery fees

I agree as a Brit, messing with the clocks is a pain BUT thats come to be a big marker in the British calander

ChildcareIsBroken · 04/01/2023 21:04

Love
Pubs, especially in the countryside
Beer
Countryside
More tolerant than where I come from
Sense of humour
Green all year
London museums that are free
All the different accents
Mince pies
Hot cross buns
Cheddar
(And lots of other food)

Hate
Brexit
How expensive life is
Problems with NHS
Fewer holidays and bank holidays
Expensive childcare

OneCup · 04/01/2023 21:07

This is a fascinating thread!

LittleMrsPerfect · 04/01/2023 21:20

Those that have said lack of ambition can you expand. I'm so interested in this opinion.

2FelisCatus · 04/01/2023 21:55

The lack of ambition shows in a few way. It's obviously a huge generalisation but people don't seem to want better for their kids. They don't aspire to a better standard of life for their kids but I think that ties into the class system which seems enforced at all levels. I've seen far more punching up than down if that makes sense. I have a friend who comes from a working class family who has gotten a PhD and a very good job. She received so much flack for it! Things like "oh well she thinks she's too good for us now" or "you wouldn't know what it's like now" etc to the point where she felt really socially excluded. And she's not remotely up herself. You seem to have to hide your ambition and your success here as it's presumed others will not be happy for you and see it as boasting. You see lots of comments on here about "stealth boasts" that just don't read that way at all to a foreigner. Brits seem to be very keen to shoot at anyone who could in any way be drawing attention to themselves. Nothing gets more sneers than "performative parenting" which just looks like a parent engaging with their kid to me 🤷

BlingLoving · 04/01/2023 21:55

Agree with so many. My list would be:

Like

The green open spaces. There's always a park or a bit of countryside nearby.

Diversity of food, things to do, people etc. Want to eat food from a country most people haven't heard of.... there's probably a restaurant in your nearest city (although lack of decent sushi or dim sum in my part of Surrey is a constant source of frustration for me). Have an interest in obscure sport... there's a club. Its really great.

A lot of processes just work. Passport, driving license etc.

Department stores.

Dislike

The lemming approach to queuing. If the person in front does it one way, everyone does.

Clock changes and mid.afternoon darkness in winter.

Small houses. Rooms always seem to be just a little too small to be practical.

Public transport- great in theory but expensive and unreliable.

done4now · 04/01/2023 22:03

2FelisCatus · 04/01/2023 21:55

The lack of ambition shows in a few way. It's obviously a huge generalisation but people don't seem to want better for their kids. They don't aspire to a better standard of life for their kids but I think that ties into the class system which seems enforced at all levels. I've seen far more punching up than down if that makes sense. I have a friend who comes from a working class family who has gotten a PhD and a very good job. She received so much flack for it! Things like "oh well she thinks she's too good for us now" or "you wouldn't know what it's like now" etc to the point where she felt really socially excluded. And she's not remotely up herself. You seem to have to hide your ambition and your success here as it's presumed others will not be happy for you and see it as boasting. You see lots of comments on here about "stealth boasts" that just don't read that way at all to a foreigner. Brits seem to be very keen to shoot at anyone who could in any way be drawing attention to themselves. Nothing gets more sneers than "performative parenting" which just looks like a parent engaging with their kid to me 🤷

I think I said culture of low expectations, which was getting at more or less that.

When I was growing up (American) there was a real culture of hoping/expecting your children to to find happiness/success in their lives, possibly that exceeded your own. My grandparents were the children of immigrants and the expectation was that their children (my parents generation) would work hard at education and find rewarding careers, an expectation that was continued towards us in my parents' generation. And the expectation wasn't necessarily financial, it was about a career vs a job and maximising your capabilities/talents. To be fair, I suspect this has also changed in the US to some extent.

I see it in the UK senior school/university system, with the narrowing of subjects followed by hyperfocus on a narrow and specific path. Again, to be fair, there are places in the US where this is the case, but there are also loads of universities where the degrees are about broadening interests and knowledge for the sake of being a more educated, rounded person. To an American, university is very affordable here, but I see people discouraging their children from attending because of cost. Surely unless your child is very interested in/skilled at something technical or trade-oriented, surely their best chance of creating more options for themselves lies in education?

I see it in the expectations around ageing. That people seem to see 50 as old and believe that all people should start planning their move to a single storey house by then. My parents are in their 80s and happily living in a big old house with stairs, travelling, going to the theatre and museums, seeing friends, and although, not working full-time, are still engaged with their careers (medicine and academia).

I do agree with @2FelisCatus about this being tied to the class system, and of course it doesn't apply universally.

Sandra1984 · 04/01/2023 22:04

LittleMrsPerfect · 04/01/2023 21:20

Those that have said lack of ambition can you expand. I'm so interested in this opinion.

More than lack of ambition I would say the impossibility of social mobility in this country. I’m foreign and had lived in a few countries.

Sandra1984 · 04/01/2023 22:05

2FelisCatus · 04/01/2023 21:55

The lack of ambition shows in a few way. It's obviously a huge generalisation but people don't seem to want better for their kids. They don't aspire to a better standard of life for their kids but I think that ties into the class system which seems enforced at all levels. I've seen far more punching up than down if that makes sense. I have a friend who comes from a working class family who has gotten a PhD and a very good job. She received so much flack for it! Things like "oh well she thinks she's too good for us now" or "you wouldn't know what it's like now" etc to the point where she felt really socially excluded. And she's not remotely up herself. You seem to have to hide your ambition and your success here as it's presumed others will not be happy for you and see it as boasting. You see lots of comments on here about "stealth boasts" that just don't read that way at all to a foreigner. Brits seem to be very keen to shoot at anyone who could in any way be drawing attention to themselves. Nothing gets more sneers than "performative parenting" which just looks like a parent engaging with their kid to me 🤷

THIS.

Connamara · 04/01/2023 22:09

British people do say what they mean, it’s perhaps you just don’t understand the subtleties and nuance if you are not native.

Whatever nationality and country being discussed, you should be aware of making sweeping generalisations. I don’t recognise a lot of what’s been stated on here and it’s funny the above post is about lack of ambition. Errr, have you read MN threads much? 😂

justasoul · 04/01/2023 22:10

I said “lack of aspirations” but yes, exactly what people above are saying.

justasoul · 04/01/2023 22:16

I also said MN aside, because what I see in the ‘real world’ is very different. There’s a sort of tribe that assembles on MN that is not necessarily a reflection of the general population.

Connamara · 04/01/2023 22:22

You mean it’s a reflection of the people you interact with or have seen. That is not the ‘general population’. There are pockets of this I agree, but wholeheartedly disagree it’s endemic.

JoonT · 04/01/2023 22:27

I was born abroad to British parents.

For me, the best thing is the cultural history. I don’t just mean history, as in kings and queens and battles, etc. I mean the layers and layers of cultural history - the astonishing number of writers and artists and scientists who have lived and worked on this island. When I walk around Cambridge, for example, it amazes me think that Charles Darwin, Isaac Newton, Wittgenstein, Bertrand Russell, Milton and Nabokov all lived and studied there, that it was the place in which the atom was first described, and where DNA was discovered. All in one small town!! I visited Oxford over Christmas, and walked past the pub where Tolkien read The Lord of the Rings to friends as he worked on it. No one had even bothered to put a sign up! Britain has SUCH an insanely rich cultural history, that things like that are ignored. In some countries, that pub would be a major tourist attraction.

I also love the literature, and the way it’s connected with the landscape. So the Yorkshire moors make you think of the Brontes, the Lake District means Wordsworth, Bath means Jane Austen, etc.

It’s also a relief to live in a country where you can walk the countryside without the fear of being bitten or stung by something dangerous.

Oh, and the architecture, especially in Bath, York, Edinburgh, Oxford, Cambridge, is often gorgeous.

Finally, the fact that the Prime Ministers are almost always Oxford-educated. British people should be grateful to live in a country whose leaders have been educated at the most famous University in the world. In a lot of countries, the leader is a semi-literate businessman or populist.

Dislikes:

Overcrowded. There are just too many people squeezed onto this little island.

Small, overpriced houses, all squashed together.

A feral, anti-social minority who ruin people’s lives. They are then encouraged to have lots of kids by the benefit system.

Self-loathing/lack of national pride. This alternates with outbursts of ugly nationalism, however, especially during football matches.

The Sun newspaper (a national embarrassment).

Awful politics. On the one side, sneering, sanctimonious left-wingers who hate Britain and hate its past, on the other, people who hold up an archaic class system and hereditary monarchy.

whumpthereitis · 04/01/2023 22:33

2FelisCatus · 04/01/2023 21:55

The lack of ambition shows in a few way. It's obviously a huge generalisation but people don't seem to want better for their kids. They don't aspire to a better standard of life for their kids but I think that ties into the class system which seems enforced at all levels. I've seen far more punching up than down if that makes sense. I have a friend who comes from a working class family who has gotten a PhD and a very good job. She received so much flack for it! Things like "oh well she thinks she's too good for us now" or "you wouldn't know what it's like now" etc to the point where she felt really socially excluded. And she's not remotely up herself. You seem to have to hide your ambition and your success here as it's presumed others will not be happy for you and see it as boasting. You see lots of comments on here about "stealth boasts" that just don't read that way at all to a foreigner. Brits seem to be very keen to shoot at anyone who could in any way be drawing attention to themselves. Nothing gets more sneers than "performative parenting" which just looks like a parent engaging with their kid to me 🤷

Yep, definitely this.

I called it politics of envy but you’ve nailed it.

JassyRadlett · 04/01/2023 22:46

2FelisCatus · 04/01/2023 21:55

The lack of ambition shows in a few way. It's obviously a huge generalisation but people don't seem to want better for their kids. They don't aspire to a better standard of life for their kids but I think that ties into the class system which seems enforced at all levels. I've seen far more punching up than down if that makes sense. I have a friend who comes from a working class family who has gotten a PhD and a very good job. She received so much flack for it! Things like "oh well she thinks she's too good for us now" or "you wouldn't know what it's like now" etc to the point where she felt really socially excluded. And she's not remotely up herself. You seem to have to hide your ambition and your success here as it's presumed others will not be happy for you and see it as boasting. You see lots of comments on here about "stealth boasts" that just don't read that way at all to a foreigner. Brits seem to be very keen to shoot at anyone who could in any way be drawing attention to themselves. Nothing gets more sneers than "performative parenting" which just looks like a parent engaging with their kid to me 🤷

This really strikes a chord with me.

I don't think it's just about ambition for themselves and their children - there seems to be a general view that it's not sensible to aim too high for anything as there's no way it would work/you'll just be disappointed/it will just get vandalised anyway/it's more sensible to settle for something less good/less radical/that involves less change.

I wonder if it's linked to a dislike of change rather than lack of ambition per se? It's an interesting one. The UK as a country hasn't undergone really radical change - revolution, invasion/occupation/independence and settlement in a very long time, and I wonder if that leads to a greater conservatism about things (and people) changing too much/too quickly?

Chocochick · 04/01/2023 22:55

Agree with so many of the posts. Good to know a lot of us foreigners feel the same. A friend of mine (also a foreigner) who has lived in at least 5 countries said: “You can like the UK but you can’t fall in love with it” and I have to agree. I like the fact that there are jobs, nobody really cares about what you wear/look like and there is quite a lot of diversity (at least in cities).

Like many others have pointed out, the weather and healthcare are not good. People never say what they mean and I really dislike the heavy drinking across all ages, social groups, etc.

2FelisCatus · 04/01/2023 23:08

The lack of ambition translates into some really shocking apathy. I've been here 15 years and even I'm surprised that people are so accepting of the lack of western medicine standards. They've just gone. People are literally dying in the thousands due to lack of access to basic medical and thousands of others are suffering needlessly....and crickets! There's no real drive to mobilise politically. People in general aren't writing to the MPs or protesting. The politicians depend on that apathy from a large proportion of the population. Those that are political active on the left are seen as "strident". It's not seen as a good thing to be politically active or bring up the fact that we all best hope we don't need an ambulance any time soon! It's really been quite terrifying to watch.

LaCerbiatta · 04/01/2023 23:26

Hate:

The weather,
The food (British food)
How crowded it is, how you can't be spontaneous and need to book everything in advance
People's lack of flexibility and righteousness attitude
The fucking tories
How the tabloid press have the power to shape People's opinions (how they managed to turn Corbyn and M&H into public enemies for example)
What a rip off some things are and how people accept it as right

Love
People's generosity and tolerance
Socialist culture and believing rich and poor should have access to same health, education, etc
Great work culture, non hierarchical (in my industry)
Access to wide variety of cuisines
How advanced it is in issues like racism, homophobia, etc

LaCerbiatta · 04/01/2023 23:32

ShutTheFrontDory · 04/01/2023 18:34

Erm there are lots of hills and mountains in the UK??

I live in Cambridge and it's pretty much flat for a 3h driving radius

Crikeyalmighty · 04/01/2023 23:55

@2FelisCatus During the run up to Brexit I read and saw comments from several 'working class' mature women who actually had the cheek to say that they didn't mind if leaving the EU limited opportunities for their kids , as they didn't want them to move away and why would they want to move away as there was everything they needed locally. Quite alarming !

TheLeadbetterLife · 05/01/2023 00:28

British people do say what they mean, it’s perhaps you just don’t understand the subtleties and nuance if you are not native.

Brilliant. Confirming exactly what everyone said.

I’m British but live abroad now, this thread is fascinating.

I absolutely agree with the comments about gov.uk - it’s a superb website. Simply brilliant. I honestly think it might be the best website in the world - the way it organises such a huge amount of information is incredible. I wonder who designed it?

QueenCoconut · 05/01/2023 00:29

Arrived here nearly 18 years ago. I also dislike how easily people can be manipulated by tabloids (the H&M vs William & Kate narrative for example and the public generally accepting it, as in who’s good and who’s the villain).

I also dislike helicopter parenting, the very early bedtimes and then being surprised that children wake at 5/6 am! And allowing children to be very loud and run around in public. My British husband was shocked how quiet the beach was when we visited my home country in the hight of summer holidays once. He wasn’t quite sure why, until he realised the children were generally very quiet.

I love the opportunities this country provides, the kind-hearted caring people and the banter!
I wish British people realised how great they are and rebelled unapologetically against their appalling government.

CuteOrangeElephant · 05/01/2023 07:47

RampantIvy · 04/01/2023 18:32

Hinged windows.

? @ComtesseDeSpair?

The country being very flat, no proper mountains or ski opportunities

The entirety of the British Isles isn’t flat. Do you live in East Anglia? What we don’t have is the weather for skiing, especially as we are now dealing with global warming.

I am British and don’t disagree with most sentiments. I guess that the posters who think we have low academic standards hail from countries where children are hot housed from a young age and spend an inordinate number of hours being educated. Or that their experience is from bad schools.

Lack of cycling culture. People seem to really hate cyclists and I don't know why!

I can assure you that the cycling culture is alive and well in Yorkshire @SirChenjins. Ever since the Tour de France passed through my neck of the woods the cycling culture has really taken off.

their food and lack of cooking skills or healthy eating.

With respect, that is total bollocks @Sandra1984. You need better friends.

They clearly haven't been to the South Downs, not flat at all.

Or Yorkshire, but to be fair it isn’t really skiing country either.

There's no cycling culture in Yorkshire. Sorry. There's plenty of people clad in lycra taking their expensive bike for a spin once a week.

I lived in Yorkshire for 12 years and most of that time did not own a bike as my options were a dangerous road or an ill maintained canal path. There were so many places within cycling distance that I would have had no problems with cycling to, but I always had to go to by car much to my chagrin.

Now I am back in the Netherlands I don't even own a car and I cycle everywhere and it is glorious.

RampantIvy · 05/01/2023 08:05

I don't understand the lack of ambition comments. DD's school had high aspirations for the students and were encouraged to apply to good/high reanking universities. I strongly encouraged and supported DD's education. She did very well in her GCSEs and A levels and has just graduated with a first in a STEM degree from an RG university. She is currently working and applying for a post graduate degree.

My friends with DC of similar ages are also encouraged and supported by their parents and they are all doing well at their high ranking universities. You also need to have a look at the higher education boards on here to see that the posters also want their DC to achieve well.

Re the queueing like "lemmings". What is the alternative? Pushing in and pushing people out of the way? Only an uncivilized society thinks that this it OK.

There's no cycling culture in Yorkshire. Sorry. There's plenty of people clad in lycra taking their expensive bike for a spin once a week.

Until covid the Tour de Yorkshiree used to pass through near me, but I agree that there is a lack of infrastructure for cyclists. And let's face it, the Netherlands is a lot flatter than Yorkshire, particularly my part which is on the edge of the Pennines.