bed blockers adding to the lack of hospital beds

[newcovidisolations]

My mum was medically discharged to leave hospital into rehab (following a stroke) well over a month ago but due to no rehab beds being available she is still taking a hospital bed from someone who needs to be admitted from a&e. She has now tested positive for covid and despite no symptoms at all is now taking a private room on the ward for 7 days as they insist she isolates.

Over 3 weeks ago I rang every private rehab within 50 miles and none could assess her to see if she could transfer until 5th Jan. Despite fees of over £2k per week with extra charges for all physio.

She could possibly have regained mobility with daily physio in rehab had she been discharged weeks ago whereas now she could have far more care needs for the rest of her life.

The system appears broken to me and could affect any one of us and I cant understand the lack of protests. Any of us could need the hospital bed not just the elderly. Her ward is not just used for strokes.

God help us if doctors decide who has good quality of life. They know fuck all about the value of a disabled life (see the scandal of blanket DNRs for people with LDs during Covid).

Ah, are you OK hun? @Cuppasoupmonster I'm off to make up some more things up in the real world :) Seems others don't entirely agree with either on what you put or what you meant but hey ho, everyone's different!

I'm sorry OP, it's totally shit and unfair on your mum. Are you still able to see her? If so can the physio and OT give you some basic things to be doing with your mum? For example if there are issues with her sensation you can use her favourite body lotion and rub that into her skin on the affected side. Or if she is inattentive to one side, try and sit on the side she is inattentive to. Pester the nurses to sit her out in a suitable chair for short periods daily, even if they have to fully hoist her. Encourage her to move her affected arm / leg as much as she can. Apologies if these are all things you are already aware of. I hope she gets the rehab she clearly needs and deserves soon.

What about 70% and 40% ? 60% and 40% ?

Say its 52% vs 48%

You are going going down a dangerous slope with your ideas.

The issue for me is dementia. It is everyone’s worst fear and of course when you reach the doubly incontinent terrified point, you don’t have the ability or capacity to refuse treatment. I loathe an elderly male family member, but seeing what he is reduced to, I cannot help but feel compassion. And he is physically strong, so could live in this terrifying undignified purgatory for years. To what end? We wouldn’t be allowed to put an animal through it, his personhood is gone, why must he sufferer when if he was a dog he’d be euthanised on welfare grounds?

@AngieBolen Did your Mother have a care package before she went into hospital, it sounds as though she might have needed one if she wasn't safe to stand up on her own, hence the alarm ? Or did your family care for her ? Was there a reason you couldn't re-start the care package ? I have heard several instances where people have had a long standing package of care which the care agency couldn't/wouldn't recommence for a client on discharge even if they were only in for a few days. Some trusts and some councils can offer a home from hospital/supported dishcarge service to get people who normally live independently back on their feet which covers up to six weeks, although I think a lot of them are currently tied up with bridging the gap when care packages are not able to be restarted/commenced.

This is what a young Nurse said, too.
People are being kept alive at any cost despite there being zero quality of life.

@Cuppasoupmonster I though you said I talked crap and was making things up yet you ask my thoughts....interesting...

I specifically said they make medical decisions on an individual basis. That 80 or 90 may have a better chance if survival if they treat them than the 40 year old. They may choose to stop cpr on a 3 year if after all attempts over 3 hours nothing is changing. There may be only one liver for a transplant.....that may go to the fitter 65 year old than a 35 year old with lots of other conditions who may still not survive. It is categorically not as simple as saying all those with dementia, at a set level, or a set age should not get the treatment

On a brighter note, a friend works as a carer at a ( Good reputation but expensive) care home.

She loves it, says she really didn’t expect to , but said she loves the residents and co workers.

However, there is training and a lot of support.

@Cuppasoupmonster and of course I believe a choice of abortion should be allowed but I don't believe in them being enforced because of a diagnosis, or of the ageist approach which you seem to take

@HeadNorth this is the point DF is at he is so distressed by it all and we can do nothing but try and calm him, he has no dignity and has always been very private and so absolutely hates what is happening to him. He now barely able to communicate. He cant swallow now and is wandering around aimless and confused. Its cruel what he and our family are going through. We want it to be over for him while feeling awful for even thinking it. We are watching him suffer every day. If I was ever to be in this position myself I have made it clear to DD and DH please don't let me suffer I don't want to be treated. I believe we should have the right to choose

The thing is, you can be doubly incontinent, non verbal, not aware of anything much around you and young - children / young adults born with very severe disabilities can fit this pattern - but you have already said that only someone old with these pathologies should be allowed to die / actively not treated?

My point is, is age the over-riding factor or is level of disability? Are we choosing to be ‘income blind’ - ie give everyone with the same needs the same care - or do we provide a ‘basic’ level of care for all (in practice the poor) and offer better healthcare and social care to those who can pay?

I agree 100 💯 percent.
Dementia of the paranoid , doubly incontinent type is horrendous to witness, so Imagine how terrifying it would be to be trapped in what is basically a nightmare?
Get the Euthanol out for me, please , if I get like that.

A relative of mine had a minor fall and waited 6 weeks to be discharged to a care home. The care home had had the vacancy for more than 6 months before so the hold up was at social services' end in this case

I think it's pretty obvious that the Government is going to do nothing about it and for an obvious reason. It is very expensive to address social care or care homes. It is actually easier to leave the burden on individuals, both patients in hospital and their families.

There are no votes in improving the situation. People do not wish to pay more tax to assist with it. And those elderly in hospital or indeed in care homes? Likely to vote conservative.

I do not think the situation will change. It is easier to put this costs on people than find the money.

Yes people are living longer and if many of them had the rehabilitative care they need when they recover from illness they WOULD have quality of life. How fucking dare you think it can be mandated that someone's lived long enough. They're people, not statistics.

For me its stroke, it can be truly terrifying.

Personally? i would want the decisions made by the local clinicians in conjunction with family, its not perfect, i agree but its better than a face minister or trust CEO making the decisions based on a score card.

@LexMitior i think you're right, the lucky ones will be able to buy in care/help &/or have family to step in.

It’s worth pointing out that the 50+ people the Government is trying to press-gang back into the workforce to boost the economy … are often unable to work die to their caring responsibilities for the elderly. So by not funding care properly, the Government missed out twice. They don’t boost employment through decently paid care staff being drawn into the profession, and they ALSO exclude the late middle aged children (usually daughters) of the elderly from the workforce as they become unpaid carers.

In my circle, we unpaid 50+ carers have come from pretty vital, well paid, professional jobs - doctor, teacher, musician , high level civil servant, university staff etc - but have faced the choice of panic call outs to parents in dangerous home or care scenarios or a dramatic permanent reduction in hours or leaving work entirely.

Yes in 10 year we will have a horrendous problem, as in 10 years the baby boomers will mostly be over 80. But 10 years after that will be a different matter. And 10 years is quite a short time in planning and infrastructure terms. We are probably now locked into the horrendous problem in 10 years time, but it isn't worth extra accommodation for the time after that peak, demographically.

And some of those projections assume life span will keep rising, but the reverse seems to be happening since covid.

(I would be really interested to see how many if the ‘lost’ 50+ post pandemic are actually carers. The scary reduction in support for young people with additional needs , for everyone with ongoing serious health conditions and for the elderly and vulnerable makes me suspect that many, if not most, have taken on (willingly or in the absence of any better option) caring responsibilities they cannot now relinquish.

@Almostwelsh 10 years of continued decline is not great though & whilst we won't have so many gen Xs a lot more of them won't have their own housing & decent pensions which will impact on public spending.

I think it's pretty obvious that the Government is going to do nothing about it and for an obvious reason. It is very expensive to address social care or care homes. It is actually easier to leave the burden on individuals, both patients in hospital and their families.

The Government is quite happy with social care being privatised, the fact that is acutally costing us all an absolute fortune and indirectly causing misery and injury to many, is neither here nor there to them. Private = good in their book, see also Energy suppliers, Water companies, Train companies,Phone and interenet providers etc. We are rubbish at privatisation from a consumer point of view in the UK, which is why I always get a bit worried when people start saying we should do the same to the NHS.

It’s worth pointing out that the 50+ people the Government is trying to press-gang back into the workforce to boost the economy … are often unable to work die to their caring responsibilities for the elderly.

I thought the silver exodus was largely the result of ill health & just wanting to not work/retire?

That’s the Government narrative…. Judging whether it is true or not would require better information than we are being provided with.