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bed blockers adding to the lack of hospital beds

275 replies

newcovidisolations · 01/01/2023 13:48

My mum was medically discharged to leave hospital into rehab (following a stroke) well over a month ago but due to no rehab beds being available she is still taking a hospital bed from someone who needs to be admitted from a&e. She has now tested positive for covid and despite no symptoms at all is now taking a private room on the ward for 7 days as they insist she isolates.

Over 3 weeks ago I rang every private rehab within 50 miles and none could assess her to see if she could transfer until 5th Jan. Despite fees of over £2k per week with extra charges for all physio.

She could possibly have regained mobility with daily physio in rehab had she been discharged weeks ago whereas now she could have far more care needs for the rest of her life.

The system appears broken to me and could affect any one of us and I cant understand the lack of protests. Any of us could need the hospital bed not just the elderly. Her ward is not just used for strokes.

OP posts:
Keskadale · 01/01/2023 17:35

lostinthebermudatriangle · 01/01/2023 17:30

Totally agree as sad as it is that’s the real issue

All european countries face a growing aging population.

They are coping far better than we are we, has Germany, France or Italy got a failed health and social care system?

Why do we accept such low standards?

Throwncrumbs · 01/01/2023 17:41

Some people just don’t want to go home. When I was an inpatient, the woman next to me was told ‘you can go home today’ her response was’ I will see how I am tomorrow’ and for the week I was there I heard her say it 3 times. She was enjoying laying in bed having visitors pander to her, on the phone ordering relatives to get her takeaways, it was ridiculous. She wasn’t elderly she was 30ish. Took the piss tbh (2017 pre covid)

Horsemad · 01/01/2023 17:41

Stressfordays · 01/01/2023 14:42

Theres so many issues within the health and social care system. Underfunding, understaffed, lack of beds. However, the crux of it is, we can't handle the ever growing aging population. We are keeping people alive far longer then we should.

This.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about these subjects:

DogInATent · 01/01/2023 17:49

DTOCs have been an issue for the NHS for a couple of decades, there's no new outcry because it's not new. Although it may be new to MOPs encountering it directly affecting them for the first time. What's been changing is that it's no longer a Winter Crisis problem, it's all year around.

If you pay attention to the NHS when it isn't directly affecting you, you'll hear about these things.

Kendodd · 01/01/2023 17:50

Horsemad · 01/01/2023 17:41

This.

A GP friend of mine thinks we shouldn't vaccinate care home residents and let the 'old mans friend' take them.

Iamacatslave · 01/01/2023 17:52

@Keskadale as you were.

bibbif · 01/01/2023 17:52

All european countries face a growing aging population.

They are coping far better than we are we, has Germany, France or Italy got a failed health and social care system?

They don't have such intergenerational inequality though.

wonkylegs · 01/01/2023 17:52

PauliString · 01/01/2023 16:01

The patients you mentioned not reaching their buzzers, needing help to eat - really family should help with that

What happens to those with no family?

My neighbour has sadly outlived his daughter, and most of his friends.

@PauliString being with my mum in the ambulance, a&e and then the ward - it was clear that a large number of the patients had no family with them. It was desperately sad to see how confused and frightening it was for them. There just aren't enough people in the system to even just be around to be with them.
We've tried to be with mum but it's been really hard as we don't live close (I live 5hrs+ drive away) and we have jobs, kids to look after & health problems ourselves. I'm wracked with guilt both being there and leaving her.

lljkk · 01/01/2023 17:55

Some families object to discharges, they don't think their relatives are safe to go home (maybe with justification maybe not).

Lottsbiffandsmudge · 01/01/2023 17:59

We can't get FIL out-of hospital..went in 8 weeks ago with pneumonia. Spent 6 weeks on a respiratory ward but could have left after 3 as he was physically well. However (altho not diagnosed because its taken 2 years to get anywhere with it) his dementia has accelerated massively and he is also prob suffering from delirium from the infection which makes it all worse. He is now aggressive, racist, making inappropriate sexual remarks, loses everything he has with him, wanders. He is worse at night. We just cannot find a care home. They have all refused him. He moved to a geriatric ward 2 weeks ago at least.
I can't see him coming out any time soon. And if he does it will likely be to a MH unit. His wife (in her 80s) was willing to have him home (he is fine physically with feeding, toileting etc) but the hospital refused. We also thought it was a bad idea but tbh I am not so sure now. His dementia/ delirium might improve in familiar surroundings.
... I am getting to the point where we might insist and just discharge him. We are 5 hours away tho....
He is 72.

Keskadale · 01/01/2023 17:59

Iamacatslave · 01/01/2023 17:52

@Keskadale as you were.

Pointless & silly remark, you can't back up your musings as they are not practical in any shape or form, just another 'Mail type headline.

Horsemad · 01/01/2023 18:00

@Kendodd probably right - but everyone's so bloody squeamish about the subject!

Anotherusernameanotheday · 01/01/2023 18:02

@Iamacatslave what do you mean by streamlined ? Cut ?
What happens while we are dismantling things entirely ?
What happens to those services that are 'streamlined' and the people who depend on them ?
What happens if you or a loved one need those 'streamlined' services ?
i suspect you'll chime off things like IVF, bariatric surgery, cosmetic surgery.

GreekDogRescue · 01/01/2023 18:05

I tried to return some crutches that were barely used but the hospital said they didn’t want them. I managed to leave them in the vicinity in the hope that someone could get some use out of them.
a friend returned a wheelchair she’s been given but was told it would be thrown away.
so much waste.
NHS the envy of the world yeah.

RudsyFarmer · 01/01/2023 18:08

averylongtimeago · 01/01/2023 14:11

A few years ago my Mil was admitted to hospital after a fall (Parkinson's related) and a bad uti. After she no longer needing complex medical care she was transferred to a local "cottage hospital " where she had physio and occupational therapy and general care until she was ready to go home. 3 wards full of the elderly in similar situations. Lovely caring place that undoubtedly helped her to continue to live at home afterwards.

It's now been closed- and the local general hospital is full of "bed blockers ". Thankyou Tory voters.😡

Same. Fantastic physio and it was closed down.

aramox1 · 01/01/2023 18:11

What do mps do? Surely they too have elderly relatives needing care? I too can't understand why there is no outcry

BirmaBrite · 01/01/2023 18:14

The NHS hasn’t been fit for purpose for a number of years. It needs to be dismantled and rebuilt, with some services being streamlined. No one party will admit to this, as guess what - it’s not a vote winner.

Rebuilt as in the 40 new hospitals the Conservatives promised ?

The problem is you can dismantle/rebuild and streamline to your hearts content but if there is no capacity in the social care sector (which is privatised) then all the problems the NHS is facing now, will be faced by whatever replaces it.
How is the Government supposed to improve the social care sector when it is privatised ? they cannot make private companies pay their staff more, unless they increase the minimum wage. They can't make them have better staffing ratio's without legislation. They can't make councils reopen rehab/recuperation and respite beds without giving them the longterm funding to do so.

The NHS has run for years with very little slack in the system when it comes to actual physical beds in hospitals, the population had been increasing and aging, whilst the number of beds has been reducing. We are currently at a figure of approx 100,000 beds for a population of 56 million people in England.

This is a really good although longish read

www.kingsfund.org.uk/publications/nhs-hospital-bed-numbers

SmokeyPaprika · 01/01/2023 18:21

Someone said how long is too long? When someone said we are living too long - visit your local Care Home and you will see clear examples of unhappy residents who have lived too long.

AbsolutelyFuckingSick · 01/01/2023 18:21

The nhs is not fit for purpose. GP's are a protected species for some unknown reason. Ambulance care is non existent. Wait times in a and e are causing deaths.
It's a taboo subject but the population is ageing, people are living way longer and there simply isn't the care available. Yes, the shit show of brexit and our current gov't are to blame but I don't see what major change any party could make.
We are all supposed to bend the knee for nhs staff. Some are working tirelessly but they aren't all angels.

BirmaBrite · 01/01/2023 18:22

So what are you suggesting @SmokeyPaprika a cull ?

AbsolutelyFuckingSick · 01/01/2023 18:25

I don't think anyone is suggesting a cull Confused but when we have very elderly people being kept alive on a cocktail of free drugs something needs to change

SmokeyPaprika · 01/01/2023 18:25

No but perhaps don’t prescribe anti biopics for chest infections.

CPL593H · 01/01/2023 18:34

SmokeyPaprika · 01/01/2023 18:25

No but perhaps don’t prescribe anti biopics for chest infections.

At what point does a doctor decide someone should be refused antibiotics? We know they make judgements based on people's underlying health conditions all the time, but they are very much patient centred and considered. Patients like my husband who is in his 70s and currently on IV abx for pneumonia (I might be feeling a bit sensitive about all this)

God, I've said for a long time it'll be Logan's Run on Zimmer frames by the time I get to 80.

SmokeyPaprika · 01/01/2023 18:41

Well if we wrote down our wishes eg do not resus or give a antibs once we no longer recognise relatives, are bed bound etc

Purpleheadgirl · 01/01/2023 18:47

There are so many points within this thread to consider...

Ultimately the Government aim for a Home first approach.....in theory this is good to keep people safe and as independent at home as possible. But in practise it means we are discharging people sooner in their recovery with more extensive equipment needs and therefore increased package of care. Naturally takes longer to get a package of 2 carers to go in than 1 carer once a day.

Some people classed as self-funding don't want to pay towards or for their carers, and can't be made to. Takes time to reach this point...then they go home and can't cope so get readmitted.

They have less time and facilities in hospital for rehabiltation so get referred to community rehab team on discharge. (Lots of therapists in hospitals are now focused on safe discharge planning rather than rehab). They don't have the staff either and for some services you will want a few weeks to get seen, due to the volume of referrals, and will have lost any rehab potential you may have had.

No- one can make anyone accept and undertake any services or rehab despite all ways of trying, some just refuse for varying reasons. Lonely, afraid, don't want to go home, poorly controlled pain etc etc. Unfortunately they will still then be discharged from therapy and ultimately the hospital if a safe way of doing so can be achieved.....and agreed to.

It is quite rightly in a way difficult to get into a care home- last resort almost. There are less and less assessment beds so people do get sent home against the advice of the hospital because it is the social worker and system that have the say so on funding. Some people aren't going to be safe at home even with maximum input, but have generally to be seen to have tried it. Sometimes in this case families do all they can to stop a discharge.

Sometimes families just don't want people home even when the patient wants to and is fully able to do so, and prevent discharge. Funny how so many doorkeys suddenly go missing at point of discharge!

Sometimes you need to push for therapy input on a ward if you think your relative needs it- often wards are not blanket referral so they only see who they are asked to.

Sometimes care on the ward isn't good enough. Talk to the nurse in charge and the PALS team if you need to.

Often the staff are understaffed completely and that is neither right nor fair. This is the reason why they are striking to highlight the safety issues....and yes higher pay will attract more staff across professions which will improve safety and care.

Social carers and care home staff are often treated like rubbish and asked to do so much in so little time, that it isn't possible. They leave, no-one else starts and we end up with lots of people stuck in a hospital bed for no other reason than lack of carers.

Ultimately leads to a queue in a &e ....people in corridors and as has been noted today, shortage of oxygen cylinders across the country as so many extra are needing to be used as patients nit near piped oxygen. Hospitals then hit crisis point....everyone pushed to get everyone out possible in any way.....and the saga continues as not enough rehab or carers. More falls etc and back the people come in classed as a failed discharge.

There has always been winter pressures, but nothing like this. Extra beds are put in, but where do the staff come to cover them, so staff get further stretched. Operations get cancelled then patient deteriorates and gets admitted and so it continues.

Swipe left for the next trending thread