Page 3 | How to help MIL with complicated grief

complicatedgriefquestions · 2022-12-30T13:37:29+00:00

Just wondering if anyone has been through something similar and has any advice on things which helped. FIL died eighteen months ago, it was very sudden and unexpected. He was relatively young, 63 and had just retired. MIL is the same age (now 65) and has not coped well and from looking online I think she has complicated grief i.e. she’s stuck in the grieving process and things aren’t improving at all. Unfortunately MIL was very dependant on FIL and they did almost everything together. She only has 2-3 friends and doesn’t really have any other network as she’s retired, doesn’t go to church and doesn’t really have any hobbies except solitary ones like reading. She also doesn’t drive even though she lives in an area with few amenities (it’s at least a 45 minute walk to the shops, GP etc). She is often on her own for days at a time and will spend that time crying and ruminating over what happened. She has not begun to sort out his clothes etc, they’re all still in the wardrobe. We’ve made gentle suggestions about starting volunteering or a class but she says it’s too soon. To make things worse she lives three hours away and doesn’t feel confident making the journey on the train so DH has to drive her home if she comes to stay. There’s no way she’d contemplate moving closer. It’s difficult to be around her as you don’t know what mood she will be in, she stayed for a week over Christmas and sometimes she seemed like her old self but other times she would just cry all day. She has been to the GP but to be honest they didn’t seem very helpful, they suggested she contact Cruse which she won’t do. She did actually start private counselling but it’s one session every two months (not sure why) and I don’t think that’s having much of an impact. Basically, it’s horrendous to see her like this and we are both out of ideas on how to help her. DH has spent hours and hours and hours listening to her cry and talk about FIL but it just seems to be making her worse not better. She has two grandchildren but doesn’t seem to take any pleasure in them, she doesn’t really find any joy in anything and I’m sure FIL wouldn’t want her to live like this but we don’t know how to help her to start taking steps to be happy again (at least some of the time).

Original poster

complicatedgriefquestions · 31/12/2022 07:24

justgettingthroughtheday · 30/12/2022 23:51

With the catching the trains - is it likely to be a confidence thing? Has she ever travelled alone. If not why doesn't your DP or you travel with her on the trains a few times until she gets her bearings and confidence.
I'd also suggest getting her friends involved in helping her find things she will enjoy. Not necessarily specifically for those who have been bereaved.

Yes it’s definitely a confidence thing. DH actually did travel with her once and at the end of the journey she said she felt much more positive about doing it alone, but then when the next time came around she said she couldn’t do it.

I don’t think she’d agree to something like passenger assist but will look into it just in case.

OP posts:

Original poster

complicatedgriefquestions · 31/12/2022 07:27

Stopsnowing · 31/12/2022 01:45

I had gruel counselling as a group with the local hospice. They said two years was absolutely normal and that there was no such thigg no as complicated grief.
however I do understand why you want to address some of this. Does her local hospice offer support (mine did not require the loved one to have been under hospice care). Would she learn to drive?

She actually can drive in theory - she has a licence and used to drive until her 30s/40s (not exactly sure). She then got out of the habit as FIL did all of the driving. She won’t start again now.

OP posts:

Original poster

complicatedgriefquestions · 31/12/2022 07:35

Orangesandlemons77 · 31/12/2022 03:21

My MIL is going though this as well, it's around 2 years since her husband died.

In my case she is relying on me quite a lot to talk about him and I have been going this but she has also refused any counselling or support from the GP.

She has daughters but one is abroad and the other grieving herself. I'm having to have some boundaries now as she would be seeing me and talking etc most days, lives quite close by.

I have managed to cut it down to meeting twice a week now. It is really hard but if it is bringing you down as well that isn't great either.

I have depression and she seems to have no empathy about that, tells me 'what have I to be depressed about' and this led to me protecting myself a little.

This sounds very similar, I’m sorry you’re in this situation.

Im our case it is mostly DH who listens to her and I know it is having a real impact on him. He is not someone who likes to go over things again and again, he finds it very hard to keep re-living the trauma.

To be honest I’ve found it hard that a couple of posters on this thread suggest that we “listen” to her - I can’t count the number of hours spent listening to her. Like you I think it’s now reaching the point where DH needs to put boundaries in place as it is affecting his own mental health.

OP posts:

IneedanewTV · 31/12/2022 07:36

It is very early days. This was the person she had lived with for many years. It’s like losing an arm. You don’t get over it you get use to it but it can take a long time. Until you have been through it you really can’t comment. My dad took years to clear out my mums clothes. I found it hard to help him but there was no way I would have barged in there and done it for him. Just do your best and be there for her when you can. It will get easier.

ivykaty44 · 31/12/2022 07:42

I would suggest getting her moved from an Isolde area with few amenities 3 hours away, to somewhere with plenty of amenities all within walking distance

otherwise this will become increasingly difficult as she she’s and doesn’t drive or use the train

is she an old 65?

MumofSpud · 31/12/2022 07:42

I would second the idea of a pet - especially a dog - of course it is not about replacing her DH ! But rather giving her a purpose

Having my dog has made me get up in the morning and out everyday since DH died recently- that comfort of having 'someone' to talk to in the evenings

Original poster

complicatedgriefquestions · 31/12/2022 07:44

But she's not crying all day all of the time - OP says that she's sometimes like herself, and other times is crying. This seems quite usual to me.

In an average week I’d say she’s “herself” for one day in total. The other six days are spent crying on her own.

When she came to stay she was often too upset to do anything. She sat on the sofa crying when my kids were playing in the living room (one of them is 7 and finds it all really upsetting and hard to understand) and two nights running she cried through dinner.

She can’t make any decisions about anything, to the extent that if you give her a choice between two options for dinner she literally can’t give you an answer (just one example which can be applied to many different situations).

It really isn’t just about not wanting to clear his clothes out yet, and whilst I understand that grief has no timeline I really don’t think we are unreasonable to be concerned about her and how she is coping.

OP posts:

Original poster

complicatedgriefquestions · 31/12/2022 07:48

ivykaty44 · 31/12/2022 07:42

I would suggest getting her moved from an Isolde area with few amenities 3 hours away, to somewhere with plenty of amenities all within walking distance

otherwise this will become increasingly difficult as she she’s and doesn’t drive or use the train

is she an old 65?

I’m not sure if she’s an old 65, I think it’s more that she is a very introverted person and shy so the idea of joining any kind of group/class is very daunting to her. It’s not something she would have done when FIL was alive so it’s even harder to do now he’s gone. They really relied on each other for pretty much everything.

OP posts:

Newlifestartingatlast · 31/12/2022 08:05

complicatedgriefquestions · 30/12/2022 20:45

Thank you so much for all the comments I really appreciate it. It’s given me lots of things to think about! I can’t respond to everyone but to pick up on a few points.

A dog/pet is a brilliant idea! I’m not sure why I didn’t think of this before, that could actually be really good for her.

This thread has made me realise that we need to pick our battles a bit more. The clothes really aren’t that big a deal and if she wants to keep them longer then that’s ok. However, not feeling able to get the train needs to be addressed as driving her back and forth isn’t sustainable - unless she stays for a full week at a time, it means DH taking at least one day of annual leave and it’s really draining. So perhaps that’s what we need to focus on first.

There’s just no way she’d consider moving closer to us. DH has very tentatively asked if she’d consider moving closer to the shops in her current area but she won’t even think about that. I think he is also worried that if she moves closer to us then it would take her away from her two close friends and make her 100% dependant on us as she’s unlikely to get involved with new activities and people in our area (and if he strongly persuaded her to move and it doesn’t go well he is worried she would resent him).

I think she is managing fine financially, I don’t know the details but I know she still has a decent amount coming in from their pensions and her outgoings have drastically reduced. So at least that’s not a worry.

I’m not really sure what the issue is with the GP/counselling. I agree that more regular structured support could be really helpful for her and certainly the very sporadic sessions don’t seem to be helping. I don’t know if she maybe needs to consider antidepressants although I don’t really know anything about that. DH going with her to an appointment is a really good idea, thank you.

To be clear again, neither of us are expecting her to be “over it” by this stage but it’s heartbreaking to see her literally spending day after day sitting at home and crying. I know it’s been horribly traumatic for her but if there’s a way to help her move past this stage we would like to support her with that.

Rather than a widows group, which may be too much focus on being a widow, what about U3A ?
I joined when I retired and if she has a good local U3A, there are so many different groups she could get involved with to take her out the house and focus on something completely different. Some are active, some are more classes, and some social group based. You just join the groups you want to try out each year. I moved to a new area being recently divorced and have made some lovely friends.

I attend 3 -4 groups a week on average (some meet monthly) so am out of the house and socialising a lot - as I’m an introvert it isn’t always easy for me but I know social isolation is incredibly bad for mental health so really push myself

Many people join after being widowed, divorced or new to area, as well as those joining simply because they’ve retired.

Original poster

complicatedgriefquestions · 31/12/2022 08:19

Thank you for the U3A suggestions, I know a couple of you have mentioned this.

I’ve just had a look at the website for the one local to her and actually it could work really well as it sounds like there are talks where you can just sit and listen if that’s all you feel able to do. It could be a good first step for her.

I think the idea of going to a group where you have to actively participate and share your own experiences is something she finds very daunting.

OP posts:

Roussette · 31/12/2022 08:24

OP you sound very caring and this must be so difficult for you, I can tell you and your DH are just wanting the best for her.

I know two bereaved people. One of them, sadly, is stuck in her grief and has been for about five years, it's not going to help you to know this. I don't know her well, she is a friend of a friend, she has 4 sisters who have tried so hard to do the right thing with her but she just can't/won't make any sort of life for herself and it is so difficult. The trouble is... some friends are beginning to distance themselves from her now because they have had years of trying to be there for her but are at a loss now what to do.

The other bereaved person is a NDN. She is my age (late sixties) and when her DH suddenly died, (it's not been a year yet) everyone's first thought was 'OMG what about Joan (made up name)'.
Her DH did everything (in a bit of a controlling way I felt). He cooked, cleaned, drove, gardened..... he directed every bit of her life to be honest. She was totally his side kick and he was in charge.
Well... I'm gobsmacked... she has come in to her own. Small steps admittedly, but she has started to make them. I honestly thought she would become a hermit, but no. I thought she would never leave the house actually (she barely did when he was alive, whereas he was always out and about) but she came round to borrow some tools last week and I was over the moon that she made even that step, I was gobsmacked, I never imagined she would ever ring my doorbell even! She also went to a coffee morning with another NDN.

She told me when she came here for coffee in the beginning 'I know I have to do this. I have to, for the sake of my children. I don't want this but I cannot be a burden on them'. I am so amazed and pleased for her and all of us neighbours are making small encouraging noises and suggesting anything we could take her to.

@complicatedgriefquestions II wonder if you/your DH can have a bit of a gentle chat with her about the future, about the impact on him, at some point. Because he has lost his Dad too, he is also coping with bereavement. Sometimes I think the children get forgotten.

Sorry to ramble. I hope I havent been clumsy in anything I've said.

saraclara · 31/12/2022 08:27

complicatedgriefquestions · 31/12/2022 07:44

But she's not crying all day all of the time - OP says that she's sometimes like herself, and other times is crying. This seems quite usual to me.

In an average week I’d say she’s “herself” for one day in total. The other six days are spent crying on her own.

When she came to stay she was often too upset to do anything. She sat on the sofa crying when my kids were playing in the living room (one of them is 7 and finds it all really upsetting and hard to understand) and two nights running she cried through dinner.

She can’t make any decisions about anything, to the extent that if you give her a choice between two options for dinner she literally can’t give you an answer (just one example which can be applied to many different situations).

It really isn’t just about not wanting to clear his clothes out yet, and whilst I understand that grief has no timeline I really don’t think we are unreasonable to be concerned about her and how she is coping.

This is why I'm frustrated by the ' there's no wrong way...' and 'it's early days' posts.

It's not early days at 18 months, and this isn't normal by any grief standards.

As a widow myself, I'd hope that if I'd been in this state at 18 months past (or even 18 weeks) a friend or family member would be helping me out of it.
MIL needs to see her GP, who can arrange for more counseling, or for her to have a short term course of anti depressants. This level of distress and depression isn't going to go away on its own.

EarringsandLipstick · 31/12/2022 08:43

complicatedgriefquestions · 31/12/2022 07:44

But she's not crying all day all of the time - OP says that she's sometimes like herself, and other times is crying. This seems quite usual to me.

In an average week I’d say she’s “herself” for one day in total. The other six days are spent crying on her own.

When she came to stay she was often too upset to do anything. She sat on the sofa crying when my kids were playing in the living room (one of them is 7 and finds it all really upsetting and hard to understand) and two nights running she cried through dinner.

She can’t make any decisions about anything, to the extent that if you give her a choice between two options for dinner she literally can’t give you an answer (just one example which can be applied to many different situations).

It really isn’t just about not wanting to clear his clothes out yet, and whilst I understand that grief has no timeline I really don’t think we are unreasonable to be concerned about her and how she is coping.

You're not at all unreasonable to be concerned.

However, there isn't a lot you can do, was my point - reflecting on a very similar situation with my DM which has impacted her relationships with her family.

I don't mean you should stop trying & engaging - the train issue definitely seems worth pursuing further.

I also think Saraclara made good points re grieving.

I just think that as much as you want to help, until she makes a decision or feels able to address her grief, your choices might be limited.

All you can - and must do - is figure out what your capacity to help, support, be involved is.

It's really sad for everyone, including you & DH, with no other sibling support.

EarringsandLipstick · 31/12/2022 08:44

I would suggest getting her moved from an Isolde area with few amenities 3 hours away, to somewhere with plenty of amenities all within walking distance

What does that even mean? 'Getting her moved'? She is an adult, with agency.

OP already said that MIL does not want to move.

EarringsandLipstick · 31/12/2022 08:48

MIL needs to see her GP, who can arrange for more counseling, or for her to have a short term course of anti depressants. This level of distress and depression isn't going to go away on its own.

I don't disagree with this at all - but as with my DM, while you can suggest it, if OP's MIL doesn't want to, you can't force her. My own DM absolutely could benefit from ADs. She will never have that conversation or decide to take them.

You can offer help & support, and your presence; and equally set limits about what is possible (eg the journey to your house) but you can't make someone take action they don't want to.

EarringsandLipstick · 31/12/2022 08:52

Roussette · 31/12/2022 08:24

OP you sound very caring and this must be so difficult for you, I can tell you and your DH are just wanting the best for her.

I know two bereaved people. One of them, sadly, is stuck in her grief and has been for about five years, it's not going to help you to know this. I don't know her well, she is a friend of a friend, she has 4 sisters who have tried so hard to do the right thing with her but she just can't/won't make any sort of life for herself and it is so difficult. The trouble is... some friends are beginning to distance themselves from her now because they have had years of trying to be there for her but are at a loss now what to do.

The other bereaved person is a NDN. She is my age (late sixties) and when her DH suddenly died, (it's not been a year yet) everyone's first thought was 'OMG what about Joan (made up name)'.
Her DH did everything (in a bit of a controlling way I felt). He cooked, cleaned, drove, gardened..... he directed every bit of her life to be honest. She was totally his side kick and he was in charge.
Well... I'm gobsmacked... she has come in to her own. Small steps admittedly, but she has started to make them. I honestly thought she would become a hermit, but no. I thought she would never leave the house actually (she barely did when he was alive, whereas he was always out and about) but she came round to borrow some tools last week and I was over the moon that she made even that step, I was gobsmacked, I never imagined she would ever ring my doorbell even! She also went to a coffee morning with another NDN.

She told me when she came here for coffee in the beginning 'I know I have to do this. I have to, for the sake of my children. I don't want this but I cannot be a burden on them'. I am so amazed and pleased for her and all of us neighbours are making small encouraging noises and suggesting anything we could take her to.

@complicatedgriefquestions II wonder if you/your DH can have a bit of a gentle chat with her about the future, about the impact on him, at some point. Because he has lost his Dad too, he is also coping with bereavement. Sometimes I think the children get forgotten.

Sorry to ramble. I hope I havent been clumsy in anything I've said.

I've seen this happen to. At a similar time to my DM, another friend of hers lost her DH. For that friend, she was devoted to him, but had had a very difficult time for years before he died due to the nature of his illness. I honestly used to wonder who might die first - she looked so exhausted & unwell for years.

After he died, she was transformed - actively out and about, driving long distances to see her DDs, having a life again.

It's hard to predict how individuals will respond to grief.

EarringsandLipstick · 31/12/2022 08:56

Finally, I agree re the organisation suggested (it's not one I know, am in Ireland).

For my DM, she has been willing to go to different activities & engage with her friends. She's active in the retirees association for her profession. She goes to concerts with other friends. She signed up to a class. She doesn't want to talk about her grief and all of these provide an outlet without forcing her to.

Unfortunately it still doesn't really address her grief, and there are lots of days of crying / not communicating. She also is reluctant to do family things like travel to visit us (her DC) or make plans.

Roussette · 31/12/2022 08:56

EarringsandLipstick · 31/12/2022 08:52

I've seen this happen to. At a similar time to my DM, another friend of hers lost her DH. For that friend, she was devoted to him, but had had a very difficult time for years before he died due to the nature of his illness. I honestly used to wonder who might die first - she looked so exhausted & unwell for years.

After he died, she was transformed - actively out and about, driving long distances to see her DDs, having a life again.

It's hard to predict how individuals will respond to grief.

Show quote history

Totally. We never know do we?

I think she is driving, I am not sure, but it's only little things she's doing but it's stuff that can be built on. We live in a small place and honestly, everyone is just willing her on and doing their best to encourage her gently. I think she knows she has everyone behind her

walkinthewoodstoday · 31/12/2022 20:47

Would having a lodger help her? She wouldn't be as lonely and perhaps wouldn't indulge her grief as much?