Are things in the UK as bad as it sounds in the news?

[Lolobella]

I left the UK in 2017 and now live in Europe. I obviously still follow the UK news closely and visit, although I have no family left there.

In the last few months the UK news have become increasingly grim and concerning. I can't tell if it is just the news painting the country in a worse light than necessary, or if things are genuinely as bad as the news make it sound.

Obviously this is a tough historical moment for many countries, but the doom and gloom in UK news is just on another level and makes if sound like the country is in free fall. Poverty, strikes, crazy energy prices, failing NHS and public services.. Is it really so bad?!

Real terms funding has gone up but demographics add pressure - as I said I found Knitteds post interesting as a start. Politically it’s a tough one as the answer seems to be just keep ploughing in with same model. But I’d look at options.

As i understand it, in the first 8 to 10 years of the Conservatives, funding increased but not with or above inflation.
Now they have increased above inflation in last 2 years but the settlements reached in the Spring have been wiped out with cpi at 11%.

Its also not just CPI, inflation on drugs & equipment is higher than what we see.

Of course we need to see how best to fund, new tech, drugs and surgical procedures all change how monies spent but the last thing the nhs needs now is another top down reform.

ime of private sector, happy well rewarded workforces, always more productive, flexible and make companies better returns, thats where i think the focus needs to be right now in NHS.

Real terms takes into account inflation. A poster put this on another thread handily

The settlement for this year and next is based on inflation at 4%.
So a real terms cut of 7%, if we assume inflationary pressures keep on rising, no reason to think otherwise, as Putin announces further moves to take Ukraine.

Plus the pay rise of 4% this year has to be found from existing budgets, again a significant cut.

Something about lies and statistics springs to mind.

Austerity, whilst protected NHS funding from cuts did cause nhs spend to slow, slashed social care and public health initiatives, both you have said is important going forward.

That chart is overall funding not pay rises

Funding for NHS has gone up in real terms

Unless you are ill you are overacting, you could be hit by a bus tomorrow.

I am not talking about works parties. You have to book restaurants weeks in advance. I think there is a British culture now of everyone expecting a handout after all the money they got from furlough.

Not over reacting, my dh is a hospital Consultant and is seeing this shit go down every day. Oh and both he and I have had cancers, we know what can happen when you are least expecting it. But live in ignorance if that suits you.

Nope, under funded pay rises, inflation and energy costs means NHS is facing a RT cut of almost 9 billion.

www.nhsconfed.org/articles/is-nhs-awash-with-cash#:~:text=The%20mounting%20costs%20facing%20the,per%20year%20in%20real%20terms.

Then there is Care and Social levy, that was reversed, it is not clear where or how that money is coming from, the above assumed they'd get the levy.

The funding between 2010 and 2019 was also at historic lows, especially in public health and social care, creating more demand for NHS services, 3m waiting for treatment pre CV, 35k nurse vacancies, not helped by pay freezes and 1% rises.

Now 7.2m and 50k vacancies, 150k in social care.

Do you think the chart below is incorrect?

It only applies to real terms funding not expenses.

Which comes back to issues that are putting extra strain on the system despite more funding, eg demographics and other

Real terms funding can go up but there still be extra pressures - which is the issue to resolve

I live in SouthWest London. I can confirm that things have definitely deteriorated. Massive increase in crime rates here. Even secondary school children get robbed on their way to school. Our school had letter out advising kids just give away their phones , if stopped. There is daily message on Nextdoor app that someone's car was stolen. I think, all this Harry Megan Drama is just to divert public attention from what's really happening. Go on alternative media sources, such as Ramble. Less corrupted view of reality.

There has been severe underfunding of the NHS since 2010. Increases in NHS funding were minimal and we not able to cover the growing demand on the NHS due to an ageing population.

I agree with the pp who said they don't mind paying tax if it goes to public services.

I echo - where is it going? And why is it not being used more wisely?

Even the money that does go into the NHS doesn't (all) seem to be spent that wisely. There are significant amounts of waste.

I am not talking about works parties. You have to book restaurants weeks in advance. I think there is a British culture now of everyone expecting a handout after all the money they got from furlough

I disagree that everyone is expecting handouts after furlough, most didn't get it anyway.

But I do wonder how difficult life actually is for restaurants if they can afford to require large deposits when people book (I am talking two people, not for a group, which was always standard) and not return them even if you phone to cancel the table. I won't book a table with those sorts of conditions. No shows are one thing, but if I call and cancel you can rebook the table. My DH was saying that there was a hefty minimum spend for his Christmas party as well, although they relaxed it because his firm are regular clients. I wouldn't book anywhere for a party with a silly minimum spend either. But I suppose the fact that people will, means they can get away with it.

You do not have to book restaurants weeks in advance where I am. I can imagine of you are well off and booking expensive places they need to booked in advance. Because the very well off are not really affected by living costs.

We're not going to super expensive places - but since covid booking (squashing us in poor service requiring deposits and even insisted we pre-order then having no clue about that when we got there) - non booking we've had issues eating out that our city and two nearby ones.

It's actually been easier in nearby town - so I've suggested going there next time also avoid trains and problem we've had there leaving bus, feet or taxi to get there.

There will always be waste in any organisation of such a vast scale, and that includes private companies as much as state run organisations like the NHS. Who among us doesn't know someone who's lived off the fat of a large firm that operates at such scale it can't possibly drill down to control every detail of its workforce to maximum efficiency? Somehow got themselves into a cushy position where nobody notices they hardly do any work or bothers doing anything about it? Or who hasn't heard stories of ridiculous impossible or uncompleted projects, management initiatives that have nothing to do with actually improving the company's results, money being spent unnecessarily because a cut-off date looms upon which a particular dept. will "lose" it from its budget?

Of course all organisations (again, both public and private) try to minimise such waste. But at the same time, a certain level of it is the price you pay for operating at scale. The company that dominates market share and ultimately maximises profits is not the one that can account for every single paper clip. It's the one with a strong OVERALL approach to branding, sales, management, workforce culture etc. that INCLUDES minimising waste but is not obsessed with it to the exclusion of everything else.

A pp mentioned that the NHS has been independently judged a world leading healthcare provider in the past, and someone else corrected that that was specifically on the issue of efficiency and value for money. This is true, and it's not hard to see why. The unaccounted paper clips that we're supposed to get our knickers in such a twist about are massively dwarfed by what the NHS can save through economies of scale - its ability to negotiate lower prices for drugs and supplies, efficiencies of information sharing etc.

The idea that the fundamental problem is "waste" is a very dangerous argument always put about by the right when it wants to attack public services, because it's an argument noone can really counter: there's always waste, and it's not like the argument is made using actual statistics to show that the level of waste is getting worst or is sub-optimal (optimal not meaning zero, but meaning the best balance between waste minimisation and effective big picture management). The idea seems to be that as long as you can point to one anecdotal account of somebody wasting money, the answer must be to privatise it. Because there's never any waste in capitalism, apparently.

The fundamental problem is insufficient funding. Real terms funding has fallen, while demand has increased (for a number of reasons). Why is it hard for people to work out that this will reduce the quality of services, regardless of how well waste is minimised?

Chart you posted didn't seem to have any detail or not any i could in my browser, just bar graph and amounts, no mention of inflation.

As you say we need a holistic approach, nhs, social care, public health & exercise/lifestyle.

I'd bring SC workers into the NHS, will give them structure, status, pensions, mileage rates etc etc... cheaper in the long run.

ATM we just seem to throw money at a problem without looking at the why and how of the issue.

The latest is £11bn for school buildings, had we kept on top of mtce over the years, we'd not need to be finding such large amounts of money & the disruption such serious repairs are going to cause.

Which does go to show, there are different ways of doing things, without necessarily spending significantly more money.

Exactly, I could be hit by a bus tomorrow and if it were to happen, I'd want rapid and effective care. Our current system is not able to provide that.

Apparently not in some trusts. Definitely is possible in others.

One problem is the fault (you could say) of the public. We don't ensure we have money to cover our Care Home fees. The Councils are forced to pay (inadequately) so staffing is poor, pay is dire. This leads to people bed blocking as there is no places/ carers - but if more paid there way there wouldn't be this issue.
No one can pretend it's a surprise when they need 24/7 care in their latter years. But everyone expects tax payers to provide.

How can people save for their dotage when they have to choose between heating and eating in their youth?

We’ve just been to buy a golden retriever pup. We were the last people to buy one. The other 11 in the litter has been sold. They are three grand each.

Plenty of people are not struggling

In the USA, I remember reading back in 1998 that you could buy insurance that covered your care home fees. The earlier you started it the less it was. $20 a month in your 30’s

We are all taxpayers

We all hope to live long enough that we might need some kind of assistance in old age (though we would prefer not to need it).

There is nothing wrong with us all sharing the burden.

Some people find it curious that the governing party which is full of older people needing extra care, services, medical treatment is the party committed to cutting spend and hence quality of those services.