Are things in the UK as bad as it sounds in the news?

[Lolobella]

I left the UK in 2017 and now live in Europe. I obviously still follow the UK news closely and visit, although I have no family left there.

In the last few months the UK news have become increasingly grim and concerning. I can't tell if it is just the news painting the country in a worse light than necessary, or if things are genuinely as bad as the news make it sound.

Obviously this is a tough historical moment for many countries, but the doom and gloom in UK news is just on another level and makes if sound like the country is in free fall. Poverty, strikes, crazy energy prices, failing NHS and public services.. Is it really so bad?!

Yes the Conservative talent puddle is now nearly dried up

What did they introduce? Will have a look

I agree it’s problematic. Even with past issues I’d choose Blair’s approach than this.

I know Labour really do not want to be out of power longer as it has been twelve years already but we need to get to a better position and if they do get in their policies aren’t looking great.

There was no critical thinking within govt since c2016, and he we are, with muppets like Gullis spouting their nonsense live on tv as the govt implodes before our eyes.

And there has been none from the opposition either, lets not pretend it has been restricted to one side of the bench.

..Blair without the PFI that is

And there has been none from the opposition either, lets not pretend it has been restricted to one side of the bench

I think the broad direction from Labour has been ok. Just look at how many policies have been nicked. There’s no magic bullet, but I’m far more impressed by the opposition benches that who we have in power now.

You need to take stealing from the taxpayers out of government. That is an important first step.

It takes a Labour Government to reform the public sector.

The global economy has changed massively since Blair came to power,
they can't fall back on can kicking excersises such as rapidly expanding PFI to paper over the cracks of the NHS (which will start to mature under the next government), nor will it be able to easily facilitate another system like working tax credits, which let companies of the hook for increasing wages and has had lasting impacts today,

It could bloat the public sector, actual reform is what people call 'privatastion' when it is a different coloured tie suggesting it...

I would agree that there aren't easy answers about the NHS. But the conservatives can't deliver anything on making public sector work actually work. They have just easily enraged a mostly passive workforce in the nurses. Rail unions well that is another thing, but nurses. Good god that is just dire.

Picking a fight with Florence Nightingale? In the past someone with a brain in central office would have stomped on that before it could even get started.

It used to be that Conservatives were clever people. Now, it's clear they are not.

It used to be that Conservatives were clever people. Now, it's clear they are not

Thats because essentially they’re now UKIP.

The conservatives allowed them to hollow out the party and stuff it full of fucking idiots, which is what we have now. Headless, one dimensional chicken wrapped in a Union Jack, flailing around wondering what to do.

Wales under Labour isn’t free from this either, although Scotland had offer rejected today so will see where it goes.

Health in Wales isn’t all that great, and Labour has been in for a long time overseeing a devolved department.

I think the broad direction from Labour has been ok. Just look at how many policies have been nicked. There’s no magic bullet, but I’m far more impressed by the opposition benches that who we have in power now.

Starmer hasn't offered any direction yet as they are keeping the powder dry and seeing what is unfolding, what will be interesting is that if people think Blair was a red tory they are going to be in for a shock when Labour do actually get into power.

You need to take stealing from the taxpayers out of government. That is an important first step.

If you're talking about the PPE scandal then I agree, it's however ironic to see all those clamouring at the government that they ',must do something now, today!1!11) at the height of the pandemic now align with the anti vaxers who said it was a for profit motive.. It's not like a load of left leaning eurocrats have had their offices raided for suitcases full of cash, or the SNP been emobroiled in missing money, heck even blair with his cash for questions.

It's a hot topic that will hit a nerve for sure, but it won't brush over the difficult answers that Labour will need to provide. And like it or not, they will not be able to brush it of like Brown did, and before I get accustations (because I have had too many of these discussions on MN), I am a non white immigrant.

Starmer hasn't offered any direction yet as they are keeping the powder dry and seeing what is unfolding

GE is a long time away

If you're talking about the PPE scandal then I agree

Im talking about the general direction of govt.

Post Brexit vote, Mogg shorted the £ and fucked off to the Eu with his business. And so it goes from there. Awful lot more than PPE in terms of profiteering that’s been going on.

If Starmer drops the policies and direction floated so far then great.

Oh some nice gold wallpaper?

don’t mind if I do.

ok peerage for you then.

isn’t democracy great👍

If you were Keir Starmer wouldn't you just let Sunak drown in the next 12 months of grimness. He's 20 points or more ahead.

Beginning 2024, then suddenly you will see a big shift. For the present, it will be the big reassurance act, Labour looks after you, responsible etc etc.

The Conservatives don't even like their own leader. Now that's bad.

Took a while for Starmer to be liked - they thought he lacked oomph

Sunak is doing better in the polls than his party though so he should say suck it up you lot

The opposite way round for Starmer party is more popular (as of 21 Nov)

The problem is that NHS has become a political sacred cow, there is a meme that comes up every election about how we have had 24 hours to save the NHS since the early 80's, private eye did headline grab of it when Corbyn did his 'leak' (which turned out to be a russian disinfo piece one of his inturns grabbed from reddit).

Yet unironically for the past decade the 'left' have been saying we should follow the european model while ignoring the fact of the privatisation model aspect of why it runs so well.

Haven't RTFT but up until fairly recently I would have said the UK was great. My rent is now going up by £400pcm, despite rents soaring the LHA hasn't increased. My NHS dentist (which are like hens teeth) recently sent me a letter to say that I either have to join their practice plan or leave. I'm never going to judge anyone again for having no front teeth.... Oh and I was in Primark today and the jogging bottoms that I always buy ds that were £6 are now £14!

@Justanotherlurker Why was the NHS in 2010 independently judged to be the best healthcare system in the world? It is a sacred cow because we know it can be brilliant. We also know what a mess the Conservatives have made of it.

Well there's not much to choose- I've had more than one Conservative tell me they think the NHS is communist. If it is, why so?

Part of it is how it is funded - the myth of national insurance, and the sense it belongs to ordinary people. Using it last week (brilliant cobsultant) you can see people feel that. It has a kind of grip emotionally that politicians cannot really adjust.

So you are just being partisan then, I thought you wanted a wider discussion, I suppose you would be just as shocked at those going long on the pound if the situation was reversed, Soros shorting the pound on Black wednesday etc? or is it you don't quite understand how the markets work and he is an abhorent person wearing a blue tie..

If you think labour are going to come in and gut it then I suggest you take a subscription to the Private Eye and read the rotten neibourhouds section...

Well if you want to use that study, then it kept it until around 2017 iirc, but as it was a metric study where health outcome ranked far below many of our european counterparts and was primarly about access then, yeah the cons have gutted it.

What is the old saying about statistics .....

It hasn't negated my point about it being a sacred cow, and you saying the cons have gutted it only proves it unfortently.

So you are just being partisan then

Not really, I’d just like someone less corrupt than the current government running the country. Brexit vote was only ever to enrich a tiny section of the Tory party, and as a patriotic person that loves this country, I despise that. It could be Labour, libs or greens, I don’t care. I just want this government out as they are damaging my country.

Fact is Mogg moved his business and money away from U.K. as he promoted Brexit and he did that to enrich himself. That speaks volumes, and what may or may not have happened in an alternate scenario is neither here nor there.

I don’t think that’s particularly partisan.

is it you don't quite understand how the markets work

Patronising.

And there isn’t much to “wider debate” about until you’ve appreciated how deeply the current govt have fucked it up over the last few years with their dead end policies that has lead us to this point. If you’re in denial about that, there’s no debate to be had really.

Not really, I’d just like someone less corrupt than the current government running the country.

Image trying to deny partisanship and then that is the fist sentence in your 'no but' rebuttal.

Brexit vote was only ever to enrich a tiny section of the Tory party, and as a patriotic person that loves this country, I despise that. It could be Labour, libs or greens, I don’t care. I just want this government out as they are damaging my country.

Again, I will ignore the irony, but
1.) brexit split both parties to the core, it was a traditionaly left wing view to be anti EU
2.) there was huge money to be made on what outcome of the vote, if had one the other way then people like Osborne and Cameron would have walked away with millions.

There was money to be made on either end of the bargain, the fact your incistance bring up Mogg/Brexit into a conversation such as this shows you are being partisan.

Europe is going through just as many problems as we are, as are other countries outside of the EU, US is having issues with strikes and inflation and union busting, corrupution is happening within the EU and closer to home in Scotland, Tax havens are being looked at from the EU just across the irish sea, non of it relates to Tories or brexit.

Labour are not going to be the silver bullet, and they are going to have to deal with the difficult situations of being in power, the problems with Immigration/Housing/NHS/Inflation and a dependance of in work benefits aren't going to dissapear, and they are not going to have the benefit of the countries finances when they do come into power like Blair did.

If you are still fixated on corruption then, I still recoment getting a subscription to Private eye as you are adament that it is just a tory problem, or at best are willing to look past corrupution if your flavoured party is in power... so yes partisan.