Are things in the UK as bad as it sounds in the news?

[Lolobella]

I left the UK in 2017 and now live in Europe. I obviously still follow the UK news closely and visit, although I have no family left there.

In the last few months the UK news have become increasingly grim and concerning. I can't tell if it is just the news painting the country in a worse light than necessary, or if things are genuinely as bad as the news make it sound.

Obviously this is a tough historical moment for many countries, but the doom and gloom in UK news is just on another level and makes if sound like the country is in free fall. Poverty, strikes, crazy energy prices, failing NHS and public services.. Is it really so bad?!

On alternatives to PFI - if Labour think they were the only options with no alternatives and they’re not coming back then I’m not seeing a great time ahead.

Yes, it is that bad, and worse. Since Brexit, things are just sliding further and further downhill, and the corruption of the government isn't even hidden any more - they lie blatantly, and even when found breaking the law, nothing happens. It's like a race to see who can be the worst PM ever. They're basically asset stripping the UK, they know their days are numbered but don't care, just seeing how much they can get before they're ousted.
I'd always thought (naively, maybe) that politicians did what they did in the belief that they were doing the best for the country - the odd few 'bad apples', but most were genuine in their intentions, but now it seems that they really don't give a flying fig about anyone except themselves, and are just in it to make as much money in a short period of time as they can. Corruption is rife. Scary times, and I can't see how it's going to change.

Johnson set the bar very low but now they're all trying to limbo dance under it 🥴

@Biddie191

Same. I believed in the odd bad apple, but overall I believed in human decency in the government. Well wasn’t I stupid ?

And as technology and treatment gets better, the argument gets stronger. 35% of beds are currently being occupied by medically fit people. They don't need to be in hospital, the should be in the community. If they had had better treatment in the community, they wouldn't even have needed to reach hospital in the first place. Lots and lots of operations are now day or overnight cases, in the past these would have had a weeks long stay. Many hospital visits, particularly follow ups, can be done virtually rather than in person. Lots of assessment can be done in the community, either under supervision, or by patients themselves. There have been huge leaps in tech supporting diabetes for example, with home monitoring etc, and also virtual wards for hospital outpatients.

Things need to change. We need to change the model of care. Patients need to take more responsibility for their own healthcare, with support. I honestly think when this next generation of oldies come through (myself included), healthcare would have (hopefully) changed beyond recognition.

@MadMadaMim I wasn't judging. I was baffled how you can be earning a salary that is higher than than most people in the UK, seemingly live alone and yet are living like a pauper in a Dickens novel. I can understand you supporting your DC, but why are you putting yourself into such poverty in order to support your DM and sibling? Are they both accessing all the support they are entitled to? I realise the OAP is low, particularly for someone who is claiming the basic rate, but do your family members understand the poverty you're living in so you can support them? Have you done this: Entitled to calculator?

Because they have to stay in Hospital becuase they cannot be safely released into the community as there aren't enough adult care workers, low pay, brexit etc, seen as a demeaning job.

Many of the 7.2m waiting for operations will very quickly fill those beds.

Still no alternatives to the PFI system Blair used and which you are such a critic.

Come one, lets stop going round in circles, we both know there wasn't one at that moment in time, it was PFI or public borrowing, risking a Truss scenario, which is why he went PFI.

The country was a total shambles after 18 years of the Conservatives, history repeating itself.

Why does having no alternatives fill you with joy? It’s worse if there’s no alternative.

That means the only way we can get anywhere under Labour is using a system that is not an option. All these posts about partying and I’m not hearing much to get excited about. At the end of borrowing, PFI is the only system Labour can think of but it’s not returning (tg next generation don’t need more of same) plus extra problems when we start paying for climate issues.

KnittedCardi is on to something though, Labour may not see it as an alternative but that kind of thinking is a good start.

@MarshaBradyo You keep claiming a proper NHYS is not possible in present day. Ignoring that in 2010 the NHS was independently assessed as the best healthcare system in the world.

Its not true that the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer. The very rich are getting richer to the detriment of everyone else including people that might be regarded as affluent. We are well off yet I am very worried for the future including our personal financial position. Its bleak.

It came first because of efficiency and equity in care provision. Outcomes have always been poor however. So you could say, it was efficient in providing care to everyone with the money it had, but the level of care was shit and your chances of surviving were not good. Not so great then.

yes you’ve posted that but if it’s only possible due to PFI - which makes it harder for whoever is paying next plus demographic changes - and that isn’t coming back then what else?

Knitted’s post is a good start

I asked you what alternatives Blair had, i d genuinely like to know as you have consistently criticised amounts spent now, so i imagined you had some.

My alternative now is greater taxation, can't borrow, as in 1946, so we will be forced to tax more.

As @antelopevalley has pointed out, we had a very good NHS in 2010, thats only 12 years ago.

Can't blame Covid, no other country in EU has millions waiting years for treatments, no AE etc.

My alternative isn’t higher tax. It’s high already.

It’s the direction of pp - greater responsibility and population health and different systems in place

Thats not true, we were mid ranking on outcomes, it wasn't "shit" care at all.

We are historically v bad at diags and scans, we don't do equipment in the UK, so by the time you got treatment, prognosis could be bad.

Easiest win for the Tories would be to increase pay for social care staff and have a real terms increase in car running costs, give then enhanced sick pay, better pensions as well, i'm they could figure a way if they wanted to.

Can train new care staff a lot quicker than a nurse/AHP.

There are obviously massive issues with the NHS, to name a few:

• huge vacancy rate in clinical roles, exacerbated by Brexit/pandemic;
• not enough doctors and nurses being trained;
• many who want to train as doctors unable to find a place to study medicine, despite having necessary grades;
• removal of nursing bursary disincentive to would-be nurses;
• poor staff retention due to huge vacancy rate putting massive strain on staff who remain;
• years-long under-investment in social care and exodus of carers due to Brexit/pandemic --> inability of hospitals to discharge well but frail people to nursing homes who then bed block;
• inability of hospitals to admit patients hits ambulance service who cannot discharge patients into hospital and get back out on the road to attend 999 calls;
• the NHS is expected to do so much more now than it was in the past and find the money for all manner of things it never had to deal with in 1948;
• shortage of GPs and impossibility of getting GP appointment in some areas sending more people to A&E with routine problems;
• huge waiting lists as result of pandemic;
• all the previous points + usual winter pressures making it hard to clear backlog and get back to 'normal' service;
• cost of living pressures + hangover from stress of working during pandemic particularly felt by lower-paid NHS staff --> strikes

And that's just what I can think of off the top of my head.

• population is older, sicker and poorer than pre-pandemic.

The NHS was independently assessed in 2010 as the best healthcare system in the world. It had good outcomes in some illnesses and mid range in others.
Conservatives have decimated it.

Yes it needs to be reiterated again and again, i don't know why Labour don't seem too.

Its down to funding and they cut it during Austerity in real terms and based on demand/demographics plus took away bursary & mcte grant, now another loan, not just for nurses but all the AHPs too.

Yes covid caused some delays but Brexit led to many staff leaving and more importantly stopped new EU health workers coming here, why go to UK and pay expensive visas, can't bring family, pay for health insurance, limited right to stay, when you can go to up to 27 countries and avoid all of that?

Btw if you list taxation as a way to go you are answering your own question.

If you believe in higher taxation then there’s your alternative for Blair too.

I don’t think it’s the way to go though as in pp

The two things I’d focus on is population health / health responsibility and social care

Yes absolutely true. I work with the comfortable middle classes (I’m not one of them) and they moan like hell but they’re all actually doing fine and dandy. No problems with their private schooling, private healthcare, large cars and beautifully heated houses.

My view is PFI was a good thing, badly negotiated, too profitable for the private companies, so i don't need an alternative.

Longer term, public health responsibility is great but it doesn't get us out of this hole.
Sorting social care will only get us so far.

So we need more money, borrow or tax?

As i understand it, Sunak is borrowing to fund more treatment done in the private sector & to send patients overseas.

I don't recollect a marvellous NHS in 2010
I don't recollect a marvellous NHS in 2008
I don't recollect a marvellous NHS in 1994
I don't recollect a marvellous NHS in 1990
I don't recollect a marvellous NHS in 1978

1978: failed to diagnose a broken ankle - staff dismissive

1990: failed to diagnose graves disease despite three visits in 18 months to GP. Diagnosed privately; surgery undertaken

1994: botched birth, DS nearly died, I suffered a prolapsed bladder. TMore midwives than mothers but they giggled at the desk rather than help patients, were dismissive and unkind. Whilst I had midwife visits at home.for 10 days, they gossiped, gave poor advice, Co.plained about their jobs and missed mastitis. Abscess after infective mastitis eventually dealt with privately.

2008: shocking nursing care when DD smashed her leg and needed surgery.

I have never experienced this mythical NHS of which some of you speak.

Yeah, I agree with you @RosesAndHellebores. My SIL and DN nearly died in 2005 during botched birth. My DS was misdiagnosed in 2012 and could've died if we hadn't been really persistent. The NHS has been on its knees for years. It's worse now, mostly due to Brexit/pandemic, but it wasn't great before.