I can’t handle my 13 year old daughter

[Mummytotwo33]

hi everyone

I have a 13 year old daughter and 6 year old boy.

the last 3 years have been an absolute nightmare in regards to my daughter. It was all fine until she started secondary school then it all started…. Her behaviour went down hill massively, I went in for endless meetings about her but in the end they permanently excluded her and she now attends a school for naughty children (even they are struggling with her and she’s rarely there)

she thinks she can do what she likes! It’s currently 2am in the morning and she’s sat shouting down the phone to her mates on a group call. If I turn off the internet or take her phone off her she kicks up, swears at me, spits at me, scares my little boy, trashes her room. (Currently has 2 broken tvs in her room)

she thinks she can lay in bed all day when she a supposed to be at school she doesn’t care, she’s selfish. Kicks off when she don’t get her own way. I’m called every name under the sun. I really can’t cope with her.

she was out through for a adhd assessment a year ago but it’s a waiting game.
myself and my family have tried and at our wits end.

every day and every night is the same old. Me and my son have to be up in 4 hours for work and school but she don’t care. She will just expect to stay in bed all day and if I attempt to wake her up I’ll get called fat and told to fuck off.

she moans there’s no food in the house but that’s because she eats everything as soon as I buy it. She tries to bribe me. If you buy me this I’ll go to school! No how about you go to school anyway.

it’s so bad. My little boy is scared of her he doesn’t want her here no more. I don’t know what to do 😞

Have a look at PDA - the PDA society website is good.

Your daughter sounds very like my son, and if that’s the case increased boundaries and discipline makes things worse.

There are various resources and strategies on the PDA society website that are worth looking at and trying.

The book The Explosive Child, and the one written after - Lost in School, are well worth buying, reading, and putting into practice. They work on the premise that all children do well if the can, and guide you through how to handle them if they are amongst the number of children who cannot do well.

IME there’s very little support out there for behaviour like this, it’s very much blamed on parents, so finding strategies that work and putting them into practice is probably the quickest way to see results.

Just an example of how PDA strategies could help - when you turn the internet off, do it through the IP address management page, and tell your daughter that the internet servers must be down, what a pain - whilst she will still be angry she may accept this a lot better than you switching it off.
Trying to bribe you sounds very much like her trying to be in control of the situation, which is a very PDA thing to do, and means that there are other ways you can use to get more out of her.

I don’t know where u are based but have you contacted your local carers centre (if you are in the UK). They helped me a lot, my son has adhd, you don’t need a diagnosis to register with them and they will be able
to help with support for you and advise on benefits grants etc that you might be entitled to as well as their knowledge on local support services etc

I wrote a long post that went into no man's land -would suggest the Newbold Hope website and their private facebook page for families. Lots of parents who have been through similar issues with difficult and challenging behaviour with their SEND children. All the best, sounds really tough for your family

Social services can help you, they are there for people in your circumstances, they can have sway with camhs too. Speak to her pru, they will have links to social services to get the ball rolling - a week of respite might be helpful too to reset the situation. My friends dd at 15 went into therapeutic respite care in similar circumstances, she's a happy adjusted adult now (she does has asd)

Have you got a phone? You need to understand this properly before it consumes you. Look for the podcast app. On it go to Phil in the Blanks. This is a fabulous podcast search up episodes 87-95. Or even just look up Phil in the Blanks on YouTube. What you are describing is either Narcissism, or more likely Borderline/ Antisocial personality traits. Most importantly it tells you how to handle these people. I think ASD and ADHD are a distraction. I think the problem lies in the impulsivity and the antisocial aspect of refusing to cooperate and going against the establishment. The phone I suppose it’s not right it is a privilege. You have to actually work out what our privileges. If you get obsessively cold, just don’t respond let it bring on until the fury has passed. Then respond in your own time. You don’t deserve to live like this, but unfortunately this is usually just inate sometimes the product of parenting in life circumstances as well but also just pretty much inate. The guy discusses some fantastic strategies, examples if you want them to see therapy, you didn’t say you need to go and see Therapist and focus on the actual problem of impulsivity for me become a problem such as oppression. And you tell them you deserve to have a better life do you think you deserve it? I deserve to get seen. Deserve, deserve, deserve. That is the magic words when dealing with people like this. That way you are more on this side rather than telling them what to do which is shocking to them. Honestly it is the best podcast I have ever heard on this. Calling the police may be an option, but I’m not sure. Think about it for somebody who has absolutely no regard for consequences, it’s probably not going to do very much. This is a long-term, lifetime problem. If it is borderline, then there is some hope, but I am afraid it’s just learning how to manage them I really don’t think there is a cure.

But you need to be aware of that if your daughter does have some narcissistic traits, talking therapy can actually make things worse because she can learn how to emulate empathy and manipulate people better. Her behaviours are not just acting out, there is a huge huge element of control to it. Her calling you names is also control, she is the one in charge. I have seen this happen. I really don’t think it’s the parents fault that they have difficult kids, and I do think resolving it is way above your pay grade. However I still really believe that you can educate yourself on little things that you can do in terms of handling your lot. I am sure you would be a very lovely mum in real life, but you’ve just been dealt with a difficult child. That is not your fault. Now, even though I may not be unique nature you might have to really learn how to set boundaries. It’s unfair and it’s horrible, but even with the situation as it is boundaries are essential .

I’d be very wary of using a label like narcissism and personality disorders for a young teen.
BPD is a very common, and harmful, misdiagnosis for autism, especially in girls, and does very little to help learn how to handle the behaviour. The self destructive behaviour is very common in autistic girls, and PDA is often a manifestation of the anxiety surrounding this and the need for control, and the psychiatry tool of diagnosing personality disorder often ignores the root cause of behaviour.

I had several years of very strict discipline for my son, which meant several
years of hell for the whole family. All this time the advice from school, camhs, behavioural supports, all encouraged more and more authoritative discipline, even a couple of people telling us to smack him, as we were being weak. For many children strict discipline is not the answer.

I think it’s only fair that lady here is made aware that traits such as control, impulsivity, lack of empathy, manipulation, can occur in several conditions and even simultaneously. It is also very common for autism and narcissism to look pretty much identical. But there is one major difference. Autism can act out but they cannot actually psychologically learn how to manipulate others so well, and their behaviour will be consistent throughout. They will not go into charm offensive mode. So if you actually encounter an individual that can present as a charmer to others but is dreadful to their immediate family it’s most likely not autism. but if their behaviour is terrible in front of everybody and u talking about autism most likely. The brain does develop until 25. That is why it’s best to actually know about these conditions and see if there is any help available. Even at the age of 25 considered fully developed adult you would still need to have five of the nine treats to qualify for personality disorder diagnosis. The main thing is not to feel any guilt, what can you do just try and make your life and out of your young child a bit better. And you should really try and get your daughter some independent accommodation as soon as this is possible may be age 18 or 20, because quite often children like this can turn into a parasitic adult, Because entitlement can also be part of the condition.

I was going to recommend the explosive child and reading up on PDA too. There's also a good FB support group for those following Ross Greene's explosive child methods, its called The B Team

This is MN at its best. Responses coming from different angles giving an arsenal of ideas and resources. Digest it all OP, come up with a plan, and take it one day at a time. These things don't have instant fixes, you need to pick a strategy and stick with it for weeks or months, accepting it won't always feel like it's working. Maybe keep a diary because in the thick of it, you can miss small improvements, and recording evidence might come in handy later.

I worked as a CP SW/manager for over a decade. Depends on the area, some would open an assessment some wouldn’t. What I can categorically say is that there was nothing we as social services did in circumstances like these that a parent can’t do alone. In fact we added massive pressure on to parents in the form of meetings, conferences etc, taking away from their ability to resolve things.

Saying ‘go to SS’ disempowers this mum. @Mummytotwo33 you need to take control. You have the capacity to manage this, and yes you might need help, but SS only likely to direct you to things you can already access, through school inclusion team etc. Phone children’s services and ask about school inclusion, NVR, or other teen parenting support in your area.

My advice is to do lots of research and really work on your relationship with her. I wish you well with what is a long road, but if you commit to being your DD’a cheerleader you can connect, understand better what she needs and be the one who helps her get it.

I'm so sorry to read this, it sounds desperately difficult and you are way out of your depth. I find it very sad that things have become so hard and that you have not been provided with the support you need.

Honestly, you need to scream for help. Call social services, talk to GP, tell anyone who will listen. You cannot reasonably be expected to tolerate this behaviour, to have sleepless nights and a smaller child living in fear. It is also extremely damaging for your daughter who is clearly crying out for boundaries. Maybe she needs a full mental health assessment and you need support with parenting a challenging young teenager. I really hope you can find the help you need. It is possible to turn this around but I don't think you can do it alone, you need support for all of you.

Drugs can be a life saver for adhd, helping manage in workplace.

People need to stop recommending social services like it's a parenting hotline. They can do fuck all for this family.

Pushing for a diagnosis and treatment is the best option in this scenario. Don't rise to her bad behaviour either, she's looking for conflict.

Did anything significant happen when she was 10?

Yes this. Diagnosis, strategies, medication if helpful, support. Counselling or art therapy might help in the meantime.

she needs help. my younger sister used to act like this. she probably has some sort of mental disorder or neurodivergency and could use therapy. keep an eye on who she's friends with as they may be influencing her in the wrong way á la evie zamora. sending you the best

Thats really hard for you and your 4-yr old. I would put in support mechanisms for your child - talk to his nursery and also don’t shy away from taking about how he is feeling.

Read the explosive child and take a look at the teenagers support on here. Also if ur daughter is abusive in the home then involve the police it is about consequences and control.

Hard few years ahead but it will get better.

Oh and importantly find respite for yourself and good wellbeing strategies.

It sounds like she is parenting her daughter but unfortunately now we cannot smack our children there is little we can do to show our authority.

This post you’ve annoyingly revived for no reason is only from last year, not last century. Smacking your kids isn’t being an authority, it’s being a lazy, abusive parent.

Social services were useless when I was in this position with my 13 year old son. I begged for help and it backfired on me as they said they would take my 3 younger girls into care and leave him at home as I couldn’t safeguard them ( he was violent)

i didn’t ask them again, and instead phoned the police everytime things escalated and got a lot of help and support from external groups and his school. TAC we’re involved, he was diagnosed with adhd and asd and put on the right meds and he’s never looked back. He’s now a settled down 23 year old with a family himself.

Oh didn’t see it was an old thread 😂

@Mystical1981 you think smacking is a good thing and there's no other way to enforce boundaries? Wow. I feel sorry for your children.

Watching

In practical terms what do you actually suggest OP does?