DD's only option is 'inadequate' school. Please help.

[Lemonsqueezeit]

Moved to a new area, and all the good/outstanding schools can't take dd. (oversubscribed). My last (and only) choice of school have offered her a place. Last ofsted report deemed the school 'inadequate'. I read the report and my eyes stung. The most awful, dreadful reviews. Bullying is said to be rife, in fact they received inadequate across the board for everything. This was in 2019.The school has since been moved to an academy. I cannot get any report on this school because they haven't been inspected yet.

Please tell me moving to an academy will help the school to improve? I genuinely feel sick.

Are you renting or did you buy?

Has the schools given you an indication of waitlists? I was told by one school they had 13 on list so chances of rapid movement was slim. I'm so sorry as I know the stress you will feel however as she is young there is time to catch up once she gets info a good school.

Things will have moved on drastically since the 2019 Ofsted. The Academy will have taken it by the scruff and implemented a total change of culture. I work in an academy. Go and view with an open mind.

I currently rent. I have some savings, but that was meant to be for a house deposit and other general expenses/investments. That was saved up over a number of years.

Current waiting list includes :

First choice : 41
Second choice : 12
Third choice : 32

I think those numbers are pretty high, so I honestly think that we need to give this school a chance and I'm open to that.

It doesn't matter how many are on the list though as it is organised by admissions criteria and the length of time waiting is irrelevant. The OP could theoretically join a school waiting list, go straight to the top as she meets the admissions criteria best (e.g. by living nearer than anyone else on the list) and get a place quicker than someone who has been on the list for years.

If your work/life situation allows it, I wouldn't hesitate to home educate instead of sending my child to a school I was very unhappy with. Home Education is far from a drastic option. It is often the best option even when the other options are good!

Hi All

Just wanted to bump this, and give a bit of an update, see what others thought.

So, after eventually having a look around the school my dd started a few days ago. Was meant to start on the 2nd Jan, but was an issue with uniform (whole other story) so started the day after. First impressions of the school were okay. Very run down though, no library, small classrooms and generally quite small sports hall etc. The teacher who was taking us around was quite positive however and seemed nice. She told us that the school was getting a lot of funding and buildings were being knocked down and replaced with newer ones. Lots of provision for children with mental health issues. Teacher said school has counsellors and MH support on site because some children haven't dealt with Covid or returning back to school very well. I thought it was good that they had these things in place.

DD started school last week, and she has made some friends. She's been telling me some things. Not sure whether to take them with a pinch of salt, or be genuinely concerned. Trying to remain objective. Is it normal for children to swear at their teachers? - I can only go off my experience at school. I didn't go to the best school, but I can't ever remember kids actually telling teachers to 'F off' to their face and calling them 'B. I remember one child in my class saying to a teacher 'Can you move your ugly head' and all hell broke loose. The child was suspended. This child returned to school the next day.

My dd has said that some children have been making remarks about her teeth sticking out. Now, dd would probably need a brace in a year or so, but her teeth are not that bad.I don't know the context of these remarks, so really could be nothing.

I'm not sure dd is being academically challenged enough. She has said she's been 'flying through her work', particularly in maths. This only concerns me as maths is not her strong subject at all. In other subjects she has only written one a line or two for her work, and says in English she gets 'to draw'. I really don't know the context of these lessons, so thinking (hoping) all fine.

A couple of her friends in her class regularly tell her that they really 'hate' the school...it makes me somewhat sad to hear children don't enjoy it.

Communication has been very poor with her head of year. I understand teachers are extremely overworked and stretched, so I don't want to seem like I'm hassling him. He was meant to be the one showing us around the school, intially. I was having a good dialogue with him and then all communication stopped. After a week and a half of hearing nothing, I managed to reach out to the school and was given a tour around. Fair enough he had been ill, but I've emailed him since about an issue with uniform and have received nothing back.

Does any of this sound concerning to anybody, or do you think that this is pretty much standard?

I won an appeal for my eldest. I also supported a friend and we won her appeal.
I made sure I had all the facts to prove why said child could not go to offered school and the school they needed to go to could offer xyz. It was not all about the learning but pastoral care,clubs etc.why the child would thrive or not thrive in each establishment .

It’s obviously not normal, but it’s not uncommon either. I got called a c*nt by a pupil in a school I worked at previously, and that was an Ofsted rated good school in a fairly middle class area. Did the student in your daughter’s class get removed from the lesson? They may well have had an afternoon in some sort of internal exclusion.

In the subjects where she’s only written a line or two for her work, what was she asked to do, was she given guidance as to how much she was expected to write? You’ve said yourself she can be lazy if not adequately encouraged (I can’t remember how you phrased it!), so unless she didn’t understand what she was meant to be doing it sounds like this was the case here?

I take it she was at school abroad before you moved back to the UK? Was that an international school?

Hi OP,

We were in a similar situation to you, my daughter (now year 8) was allocated a school that was rated inadequate and then academised. I was so upset and thought I was condemning her to a life of academic failure (dramatic I know!). No ofsted inspection since the inadequate rating.

Some differences between your and my experience is that communication has been excellent- the head saw me on the same day that I found out she was allocated the school to show me round - I was impressed by him and reassured by his plans and have seen him on a couple of occasions since. The plans regarding building work, school clubs, rewards etc have all materialised. My daughter is bright and driven and she is highly rewarded for this. The classes are split into sets so she has friends with similar abilities and personalities. She is thriving and I am now really happy with the school and will happily send her siblings. The ofsted inspection is due this year.

Some of the tales my daughter came home with (swearing, fighting etc) did really shock me at first but the school has a zero tolerance approach and these kids are quickly removed from the class and sent to a behaviour unit. How does your school deal with similar behaviour?

My DD did initially come home saying the work was easy, which was concerning but now they have been set, the work is more appropriate and challenging.

What are the other schools like within the academy? I think this is telling. Our academy has lots of schools and a good track record of turning inadequate schools around to outstanding and all other schools are at least good or outstanding.

The comments about your daughters teeth are mean, kids can be mean but this can happen in any school. If the behaviour continues or escalates then get her (or you) to report it and see how the school handles it - that will be telling.

Ultimately, you had no choice. If your child gets a place in another school, then you can move her. I would look around the school first. A good or outstanding school doesn't mean that your daughter will be happy and no school is perfect, each has its own set of issues.

An ofsted report from 2019 is meaningless if there’s been a change of SLT and it’s joined an academy since.
DD joined a school that “needs improvement” because it seemed really caring and supportive on the open evening and a good fit for her. It was, and got good at its ofsted in her first term.
DS’s school on the other hand was good 2 years before he joined, and inadequate a year later. Both had new SLTs between ofsted inspections.
Now DS2 is going to a “new” academy. In its previous incarnation it was inadequate and I nearly didn’t look round (had hated it when I looked round with DS1 and DD) but I loved it.The ethos was closest to our local outstanding selective, it felt completely different. About half the teachers had left and been replaced. The remaining teachers saw this as a positive and felt they now had the right people. One teacher who had worked there 13 years told me he’d always said there was no way he’d want his DC going there, but now he’d like them to. Other schools in the MAT had outstanding ratings, and they were able to show me how they’d duplicated the teaching and leadership methods and how they were having an impact.
Dont base decisions on an outdated ofsted!

I'm surprised it hasn't been reinspected yet. I presume there have been monitoring reports since? What have they said?
I know our local academy was inadequate last spring and a monitoring report was published 3 months later.

Just saw your update. As a PP said, how they handle it says a lot. Some of the current pupils may have been there since before the changes took effect so may not yet have a clear understanding of expectations. How the school handles things may yet make a difference.

Obviously it won’t be the same everywhere but our failing high school (kids not there yet but currently y6 so we’ve been doing our research) was taken over by an academy in 2019 and everyone’s view locally is that it’s improved beyond measure in that time.
This particular academy runs about 6 schools and the news is similarly positive about the others (which were acquired earlier). So find out about other schools the academy runs, If they do.
but local Facebook groups/ideally befriending a parent whose kid goes to it- is probably your first call.

Either way I think you need to accept, get on waiting lists for others, and hope for the best.

SORRY I should have RTFT realise things have moved on. It looks like things are ok for now but I get your concerns- I would be too. Plenty of good advice on here I hope it works out.

Trying to remain objective. Is it normal for children to swear at their teachers?

Im sorry op, from what you have said above, if I'm brutally honest this doesn't sound like the best school. Are there any other options?

This happened to my eldest. We didnt get any of our choices and he was placed in the school nobody wanted. Requires improvement, bad rep, bad ofstead.
He had been in an 'outstanding' primary in a rich yummy mummy area and was bullied there, school did nothing, zero sen support despite coupious letters from GP etc.
He loves the new school and i have to say they have been amazing. Because they are under scrutiny and constant inspection they are shit hot at everything. Small classes of 17 pupils to manage behaviour and not let pupils who want to work be pulled down by others. Staff are everywhere and know my son well, as appears to be the case with most pupils. My son felt invisible in juniors.
He has a form tutor, a year tutor and a year wellbeing lead. When ever i have been to the school there is a heavy staff presence and behaviour is exemplary. They get extra funding due to the high level of needs in the area too. My sons happiness and confidence has gone thru the roof.

“I'm not sure dd is being academically challenged enough. She has said she's been 'flying through her work', particularly in maths. This only concerns me as maths is not her strong subject at all. In other subjects she has only written one a line or two for her work, and says in English she gets 'to draw'. I really don't know the context of these lessons, so thinking (hoping) all fine.”

You said she was supposed to start on 2nd Jan (a bank holiday?) but started on 3rd. So she has been there for FOUR days. And the first 4 days after Xmas break are not the most intense for any class, let alone a Y7.

I found in Y7 English there was a lot of “present this like a newspaper report” including a box for a sketch.

What maths set is she in? All my friends / family and my school set quickly for maths, even though they don’t set generally. It was first term after half term at my children’s school. Again though, it’s 4 days - so 2 or 3 maths lessons? Which may be a recap from last term, deliberately starting with Y6 level as an intro to a new topic, or just randomly a topic she’s done before or happens to be good at.

By all means challenge it and ask the teachers, but after just 4 days, you need to listen to the teachers.

Re the swearing… my children’s comprehensive has a “difficult” catchment area, and yes - swearing like that isn’t unusual, and leads to standing outside or isolation. But your 19% GCSE result is 61% at ours!

My generally well behaved kids love to regale their cousins (at “nicer” schools) with tales of swearing - and there have been two knife related exclusions (they got permo’d, mum!) from one of mine’s form group over 4 years. My younger one especially likes to swagger round like she’s really hard, revelling in the tough reputation of attending her school. She’s Y10 and predicted 7+ all round. It is possible to deliver for more academic children and have a subset of kids with behaviour issues.

My big concern would be that 19%. From an entirely selfish point of view - if most kids are failing but they have a class each year with 7+ I’d be more reassured than if no-one is getting more than a 5.

I know our local academy was inadequate last spring and a monitoring report was published 3 months later.

Thanks - I'll see if I can find this.

Did the student in your daughter’s class get removed from the lesson?

Yes, I believe he did. I understand the school might be keen to avoid such suspensions/exclusions because there were no many in the previous report.

In the subjects where she’s only written a line or two for her work, what was she asked to do, was she given guidance as to how much she was expected to write?

I'm not sure if I'm honest. She's had a super busy week but I will ask her in more detail about what was required in those specific lessons. She mentioned in maths that the teacher made a mistake and so she had to re-do a lot of her work as her answers she gave wouldn't have been correct. She said maths wasn't too difficult. I'll mention here though that they are placed into sets already, but she hasn't had any baselines tests yet.

The head saw me on the same day that I found out she was allocated the school to show me round

I would have really liked to have seen the head. I am quite disappointed with her head of year. We did bump into him during the school tour and all he could say to me was 'don't come near me, I'm ill'. The communication from the receptionist was very good however when we had the uniform issue. She was lovely and very kind.

Im sorry op, from what you have said above, if I'm brutally honest this doesn't sound like the best school. Are there any other options?

Honestly, none. I could appeal for one of the other schools but they are very oversubscribed and don't really rate my chances but I might do it anyway. Two outstanding privates also, but can't afford the fees.

I'm just a bit sad as the school doesn't even have a library at the moment.DD loves to read and her vocabulary is very good. Writing is also a huge passion. I love the fact that they are getting all this funding, but no idea how long it's all going to take.

I don’t think I would be concerned your DD isn’t being challenged academically yet, she’s only been there 3 days so will have only had each subject once or maximum twice and the teachers likely haven’t had a chance to assess or mark her work in any detail yet. The first week back after the holidays is also usually a bit of a settling back in week, especially after Christmas and in Year 7 when students will have just had 2 weeks of high excitement and lie-ins and overstimulation etc and where the last week or two of the previous term was likely off-timetable with Christmas parties and events etc. Most teachers aren’t going to have planned to jump straight into new learning on the first lesson back and will be using the first week to recap on last terms learning and work on getting students back into their routine and reinstating boundaries etc.

The teachers also won’t know instantly where your daughters ability in each subject is and at which level to set the work. Her last school may not have passed on previous assessment data and her Year 6 SATs results etc yet (especially if the school was out of the UK) so the teachers will need some time to gauge your daughters ability and differentiate work at the correct level. If after half-term she is still flying through the work and not being challenged I think it would be reasonable for you to start to worry, but expect that it will take the teachers time to get to know her and where she is working in each subject and they won’t instantly be able to set your daughter work that is at the exact right level for her.

You said she was supposed to start on 2nd Jan (a bank holiday?) but started on 3rd. So she has been there for FOUR days. And the first 4 days after Xmas break are not the most intense for any class, let alone a Y7.

Meant the 3rd January (Tuesday) - started on Wednesday.

Yes, understand. Probably being unreasonable as it hasn't been long at all and things take time to settle.

My big concern would be that 19%. From an entirely selfish point of view - if most kids are failing but they have a class each year with 7+ I’d be more reassured than if no-one is getting more than a 5.

Yes, very alarming when I read the 19%. This was from 2019's last report I think. Trying to find more recent one to see what things have been like since moving to academy.

All the reports will be on the Ofsted website. Honestly OP, as a teacher I would move house to avoid a school as you describe. Get into a different catchment area for a different set of schools- even if it means a longer commute to work for you. Education is so important and I have worked in schools as you describe where the management of behaviour takes precedent over the quality of teaching because it has to. I wouldn't want that for my own children.

Could you use the Locrating app to look for schools further away that might have space in her year group? It shows you how many in each year and you can search for schools that aren't oversubscribed. I'd be tempted to ring around and further away schools she could manage.

@Lemonsqueezeit

Please tell me moving to an academy will help the school to improve? I genuinely feel sick.

Highly unlikely unfortunately. Our town has had two failing "academies" for years. Head teachers come and go, each full of promises that come to nothing. Ownership changes, no improvement. One was the school I went to 40 years ago, and it was crap back then, and hasn't improved one iota in the subsequent years despite all the different names, specialisms that come and go, etc.

There was a similar one in the town next door, they "solved" that by shutting it down and there is now a small fleet of buses taking the pupils to a more successful school across the county border, but that's now starting to deteriorate.

Unfortunately, a "failing" school is highly unlikely to improve because parents who care and are engaged with their kid's education won't send their kids to it and will seek out better alternatives. That leaves the failing school with a revolving door of "problem" pupils with parents who aren't bothered, and however much you try to improve such schools, they generally don't.