'Proud' to be working class?

[RosemaryMoocher]

I am British but grew up overseas. I admit to having lived in a bit of a bubble, so please forgive my ignorance.

When reading online I often notice the phrase 'working class (and proud)' but rarely from those who identify as middle, upper and so on. I do not hear this spoken in everyday life as often as I see it online. Is there a history to this?

Does it refer to pride in terms of achievement or is it a response to being marginalised, historically? I have often sensed a kind of middle class guilt (can't think of a more appropriate word), which champions and defends the working class whilst the sentiment doesn't seem to be returned in the opposite direction. I am not sure if it is political as much as it is cultural. I would like to understand it a little more?

Why on earth would the working class defend and champion the middle classes?

I think it's more working class and not ashamed. Not everyone has the opportunities to earn the big bucks or get the big job etc and that's okay. People shouldn't be ashamed of their jobs/homes/families.

Those who express that they’re “proud” of being working class are usually using “proud” to mean “not ashamed”, as working class people are often looked down upon.

I don’t know any middle class people who champion the working class, nor do I see why the working class should be expected to do the same to them. Some middle class people who are fussed about class see being middle class as an expectation, and anything less as an inherent personal failure.

I think the obsession with class is very wanky.

It is depressing to think anyone should have to defend their culture. Class does seem to be a topic in the UK that looms and stays relevant yet everyone declares it shouldn't be, it's a strange one isn't it?

Who and what made the working class feel ashamed?

Generally people who claim to be 'proud' to be working class are going out of their way to prove they're not stuck up.

Most of us don't actually care about class. It's nothing like as clear cut as it used to be, if the class levels even still excuse at all.

Apologies, if it helps to explain, much of my family is a mish mash of culture so I have never felt a typical 'fit' in the class system. My father was American and my mother Swedish

This makes sense, thank you.
I suppose it depends on how one defines stuck up, too.

“I think the obsession with class is very wanky.”

Thats a very privileged viewpoint to have.

Unfortunately it is a significant area of disadvantage for many of us unlucky enough to be born poor, in areas of shit education with working class accents. So unfortunately I’m very aware of my social class and where I am in the pecking order. Apparently that makes me a wanker too.

Classes aren't defined anymore, it's outdated. Which country did you grow up in? How did it differ?

You’re wrong. Class is still much alive and putting people in boxes. Just look at the headlines today.

Nobody cares about this in 2022. I mean maybe someone somewhere in a manor cares but 99% of the British public don't care. On Mumsnet I've noticed a lot of posters are wealthier than average IE "middle class" and they are pretty sympathetic towards poorer people which is nice although sometimes it does descend into some extreme Stalin Tier hatred of richer people even though most on here are quite well off themselves 🤣 but that's Mumsnet for ya

@UWhatNow

Um. You’ve mistaken me there. I’m also working class, born poor from an area with a working class accent and a shit education. I’m a single parent on benefits, so I have no shortage of people telling me I’m shit for existing. I’d hardly consider myself “extremely privileged”.

What I meant was, I hate the obsession class because people use it as some sort of yardstick of morality or how hard they work when 9 times out of ten they were just born to parents who had money/support/no mental health issues.

So - I think it’s wanky because it’s mostly out of our control. So bugger it.

Because we live in a country in which income and worth have become synonymous but someone who knows their contribution to society goes beyond their tax returns might highlight that by saying that they are working class and unapologetic about it.

I'd say people saying they're proud to be working class comes from a sense of shared history/culture.

My father says this often, he's from a northern city with an industrial past that he feels part of. They built ships/dug coal/wove wool or whatever.

They considered themselves to have values that were different from the middle class... More friendly, down to earth etc.

Interesting. I find the opposite. I find many people of MN are on the lower end of the socioeconomic ladder. People frequently talk of only buying second hand, struggling with utility bills, buying from the discount bins at the supermarket etc. There is also lots of disparaging comments regarding people to have domestic staff, send their dc to private schools and who drive electric vehicles. Holidays seem to be sub £5k and lots of caravans and holiday parks.

Yup I feel you. Dh and I were just talking about this earlier. A few of his workmates were talking shit about the fact that council houses were being built nearby, they'll be full of scumbags, never worked a day etc. We live in a council house. The two workmates that were talking shit one was given a whole house by his dad and the other lives in with his wife and kids in an extension on his parents house. Both of them were given somewhere to live but we are the scumbags who were supposedly 'given somewhere to live for free' when we pay rent every month. Sorry for not having parents that have a spare house 🙄

I see. Yes those that perpetrate class based prejudice are wankers. Agreed. I live it every day and hate the idea that you’re automatically considered ‘less than’ because you didn’t go to private school.

I did a search and find a lot of class chat on mumsnet, doesn't seem to be irrelevant to people at all. If anything I wonder if it forms the perception of many people's identities, whether we like it or not?

True enough in everyday life, no one discusses it, thank the lord. It is like something people are ashamed of talking about yet still care about?

It's a response to being historically marginalised

Yah, you do know that even rich people can buy second hand and go on sub 5k holidays? the horror, the horror.

The disparaging comments are exactly what I mean, but you're taking it at face value that a lot of people on here are poor 5k is a lot for a holiday in my opinion maybe I'm just super poor though and it's all a matter of perspective. Anyway I'm sure the wannabe mumsnet Stalins will be along in a minute to send me to the gulag 🤣.

There is a huge difference in perception though between say the feudal past and the industrial revolution. Have the working classes become more liberated since WW2 or is the marginalisation just different now? They definitely have more social power and access, although not to a great extent. I have a theory that this social group spends more over all so is simultaneously protected (championed) and abused by capitalism.

I think that’s because a lot of WC people don’t realise they’re disadvantaged. Like a fish doesn’t see the water. The level of depravation isn’t apparent when you live in a community where everyone is similar. It was only when I worked in a very middle class sphere that I realised (with utter horror) how snobby and closed off it was to WC people. Unless particularly skilled or useful, they are generally written off as intellectually inadequate and embarrassing.

that was a response to @neverendinglauaundry

That was my first thought. Despite so-called 'middle class guilt,' you can see, especially on here, the condescending, patronising and superior attitudes when it comes to the working class.