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How do you manage to have a decent bath with a modern combi boiler

128 replies

theblackradiator · 26/11/2022 17:53

I have just replaced my 20 odd year old super reliable fantastic back boiler for one of these so called modern wonders (haha) combi boilers. I was advised to due to energy efficiency and running costs and I also struggled to find a gas safe engineer to service old boiler as younger guys now are not trained to service them. so I thought I'd go ahead and modernise and my god how I regret it! so much so I could cry it feels like a total downgrade compared to my old mid 90s backboiler. Running the bath takes a good 20 minutes or more longer, water no where near hot enough for a decent bath as boiler will only heat up to 65 degrees and by the time the bath is filled its going cold. we are a house that absolutely loves and needs baths to help with the aches and pains I suffer from. the central heating seems to work OK but to be honest I think old boiler kept the house consistently warmer and as for running costs I've noticed no difference at all as yet (according to my smart meter readings). no idea of the reason for my long post sorry, I just wanted to vent but if anyone does have any ideas of how to improve my bath water other than boiling the kettle! then any advice welcome. honestly feel I've just totally wasted £3000 to downgrade.

OP posts:
BinturongsSmellOfPopcorn · 31/12/2022 10:06

OP, it sounds as if your boiler may be undersized.

We had similar problems when we moved into this house - to get an actually hot bath we had to turn the heating off. The boiler manual said it was for a 'small house with 1 bathroom'; we do only have 1 bathroom, but it's not a small house - there are a lot of radiators to heat and the boiler wasn't capable of doing that and hot water at the same time. Since upgrading to a higher powered boiler we've had no problems at all.

If you've just had it installed you won't want to replace (unless a complaint to the fitter who wrongly advised you can get it done very cheaply), but try turning the heatting off next time you run a bath and see if that makes a difference.

springbabydays · 31/12/2022 10:17

I wouldn't have a combi again especially as a family of 4. They are best suited for flats or small terraces.

Just wondering OP as you've changed to a pressurised system, could you possibly have a leak somewhere? The existing pipes may have been fine until now but pressurising the system can expose tiny weaknesses.

Lister80 · 31/12/2022 10:29

BinturongsSmellOfPopcorn · 31/12/2022 10:06

OP, it sounds as if your boiler may be undersized.

We had similar problems when we moved into this house - to get an actually hot bath we had to turn the heating off. The boiler manual said it was for a 'small house with 1 bathroom'; we do only have 1 bathroom, but it's not a small house - there are a lot of radiators to heat and the boiler wasn't capable of doing that and hot water at the same time. Since upgrading to a higher powered boiler we've had no problems at all.

If you've just had it installed you won't want to replace (unless a complaint to the fitter who wrongly advised you can get it done very cheaply), but try turning the heatting off next time you run a bath and see if that makes a difference.

Undersized Combi boiler is what I am trying to avoid.

I have 9 radiators across 8 rooms to heat and then I like to have hot baths with top up. Also possibility of a conversion leading to another radiator.

What make, model and Kw power boiler did you upgrade to for your home? Thank you.

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santaismyname · 31/12/2022 10:53

So a Combi can be good if you have the correct Kw power and water pressure against home's demand ?

I do much prefer a tank to be honest, it heated up for 30 minutes in the morning and that would see me through the day with a bath and enough to do the washing up / wash hands.

I am been told it will cost a lot more to have a conventional boiler due to upgrade on
new pump , cylinder, diverter valve and changing pipes.
I think it is the pump that is faulty in my current system.*

OP do you currently have a cold water tank and a hot water tank?

theblackradiator · 31/12/2022 13:54

@Lister80 don't do it I miss my old back boiler every day. 😢 worked far far better. with a combi when it's heating the hot water it will stop heating the radiators it cannot multi task and heat both at once when the demand for hot water is finished the radiators will heat up again. Because a combi just uses water from a mains feed it takes forever to fill a bath with a separate tank you can run both hot and cold taps on full filling the bath in a quarter of the time so the main disadvantage is not having the separate hot water tank for me. water isn't as hot with the most modern boilers due to safety to prevent scolding it just seemed hotter from my old tank.
Even the central heating seemed warmer with the old boiler as the radiators didn't cut out and cool as regularly radiators always seemed hotter and to be honest I don't think the older boiler was any more expensive to run. I honestly regret replacing it I wish I'd not listened to people telling me how much better and cheaper to run it'd be because honestly it's a massive downgrade for me I feel like I swapped a Rolls Royce for a Robin reliant! . People on here that have never had a older back boiler will not know how much better they were. keep your old boiler if it's still in good working order I wish I'd done more research myself.

OP posts:
ifonly4 · 31/12/2022 14:16

We've had three combi boilers. First and second heated water perfectly and fast filled bath as boiler directly under bath in kitchen. Present one, it takes a long time to fill but due to conversation upstairs, our bath is the furthest point from the boiler.

If boiler isn't doing it's job as expected, I'd ask engineer to come back and check - system might just need a tweak. If he can't help, ask him to get manufacturer out under the guarantee - our present engineer said he'd want us to call him first as he's accrediated with Worcester Bosch and wants his high reputation preserved.

theblackradiator · 31/12/2022 14:28

BinturongsSmellOfPopcorn · 31/12/2022 10:06

OP, it sounds as if your boiler may be undersized.

We had similar problems when we moved into this house - to get an actually hot bath we had to turn the heating off. The boiler manual said it was for a 'small house with 1 bathroom'; we do only have 1 bathroom, but it's not a small house - there are a lot of radiators to heat and the boiler wasn't capable of doing that and hot water at the same time. Since upgrading to a higher powered boiler we've had no problems at all.

If you've just had it installed you won't want to replace (unless a complaint to the fitter who wrongly advised you can get it done very cheaply), but try turning the heatting off next time you run a bath and see if that makes a difference.

I'm wondering if that's part of the problem too it's only a 24kw boiler, fitter did say under new regulations he had to fit the smallest boiler that my property could manage with I'm In a small 3 bed semi. I unfortunately didn't have a clue and just assumed he was the expert as he's an older guy with many years experience so knew what he was doing. to be honest though I think no matter what size combi they're no where near as good as older systems with separate hot water tanks. I cannot truly compare running costs of my old system to this as old one was removed just before the fuel price increases but it seems very expensive never had gas bills like this before but that is probably due to price rises than the boiler. Guess il never know which would have been cheaper to run but I've since been told by another gas safe engineer that the gas pipe that supplied the old back boiler systems were smaller than they are to the modern combis so modern combis require more gas apparently. he said he's never understood why they say they are cheaper when they require a bigger gas feed. This also made me regret my decision to change as I was under the impression back boilers were gas guzzlers but apparently not!

OP posts:
WordtoYoMumma · 31/12/2022 14:30

No issues at all here. Our old boiler was crap, to get hot water the tap could only be turned on a little bit, any more and the water ran cold. Took forever to run a bath.

New combi boiler, put tap on full and there's a piping hot bath in minutes!

Biscuitandacuppa · 31/12/2022 14:35

I’m in a 2 bed terrace with 7 large radiators and a towel rail. I have the 28kw green star compact Worcester combi boiler.

Honestly it’s way better than my last combi. I like the room thermostat as I can keep it in the lounge (warmest room) so I’m not over heating the house, it’s only set to 17 degrees anyway. I’ve also put all of my radiator trv valves to between 2 & 3.

I’ve changed the water temp to 55 and that is fine for showers and baths. The radiators don’t go off if the bath is running and I have a massive double ended bath, probably takes 10 mins max to fill.

I would get your installers back, ask him to check for any leaks, low pressure etc. and look at your settings. If that doesn’t resolve your issues then I’d argue you were miss sold and the boiler needs to be putto a higher kw.

theblackradiator · 31/12/2022 17:23

Can I just ask what pressure level should my boiler be at. as I've never had a combi before all this pressure etc is all new for me as back boilers were so simple and basic. It currently reaches over 2 when in operation is that OK? I find it quite noisy too always seems to have a low vibrating hum sound is that normal?

OP posts:
Biscuitandacuppa · 31/12/2022 17:57

I think it should be between 1-2 bars. If it gets over 2 when operating apparently that isn’t an issue unless it is going into the red zone

Lister80 · 31/12/2022 21:43

theblackradiator · 31/12/2022 14:28

I'm wondering if that's part of the problem too it's only a 24kw boiler, fitter did say under new regulations he had to fit the smallest boiler that my property could manage with I'm In a small 3 bed semi. I unfortunately didn't have a clue and just assumed he was the expert as he's an older guy with many years experience so knew what he was doing. to be honest though I think no matter what size combi they're no where near as good as older systems with separate hot water tanks. I cannot truly compare running costs of my old system to this as old one was removed just before the fuel price increases but it seems very expensive never had gas bills like this before but that is probably due to price rises than the boiler. Guess il never know which would have been cheaper to run but I've since been told by another gas safe engineer that the gas pipe that supplied the old back boiler systems were smaller than they are to the modern combis so modern combis require more gas apparently. he said he's never understood why they say they are cheaper when they require a bigger gas feed. This also made me regret my decision to change as I was under the impression back boilers were gas guzzlers but apparently not!

Watch the video within this link...
It goes on to mention
"Viessmann Vitodens 111-W hybrid – combi boiler with a built in water tank"

And also it goes onto mention if you ioverspec, new boilers have a module that reads sensors and if there is a lower demand it should turn down intake!

Lister80 · 31/12/2022 21:44

theblackradiator · 31/12/2022 14:28

I'm wondering if that's part of the problem too it's only a 24kw boiler, fitter did say under new regulations he had to fit the smallest boiler that my property could manage with I'm In a small 3 bed semi. I unfortunately didn't have a clue and just assumed he was the expert as he's an older guy with many years experience so knew what he was doing. to be honest though I think no matter what size combi they're no where near as good as older systems with separate hot water tanks. I cannot truly compare running costs of my old system to this as old one was removed just before the fuel price increases but it seems very expensive never had gas bills like this before but that is probably due to price rises than the boiler. Guess il never know which would have been cheaper to run but I've since been told by another gas safe engineer that the gas pipe that supplied the old back boiler systems were smaller than they are to the modern combis so modern combis require more gas apparently. he said he's never understood why they say they are cheaper when they require a bigger gas feed. This also made me regret my decision to change as I was under the impression back boilers were gas guzzlers but apparently not!

heatable.co.uk/boiler-advice/what-size-boiler-for-my-home

Snowflake2 · 01/01/2023 03:15

Whoever it is that has 55°C water temp, I thought it had to be 60°C min to avoid legionella?

OP it's insane that 65°C is the hottest your boiler goes. The engineer left mine in the wrong settings after servicing and it was 95°C. When the really cold spell hit recently my 60°C bath felt too cold within 15min of being in it without having added any cold water and I had to temporarily turn the boilers water temperature up a bit for a few weeks. I think the bath itself was cold and stealing the heat from the water, so you could try heating the bathroom before running the bath.

Those wanting constant hot water, there's a setting for that on my boiler, means it keeps a small amount of water hot and ready to use so no cold comes out the hot tap for handwashing etc. But means the boiler is on more than it would otherwise be so will presumably cost more.

If you want to top up the bath while you're in it it's easy, so long as you've got two feet and the right taps. Pull the plug at the same time as turning on the hot tap so the initial cold water goes straight out, putting the plug back in again when the water starts coming through hot. Use your feet to do it and you don't even have to sit up. If you're losing too much water hover the plug over the plughole to slow the flow rate. You'll need one foot on either end of the plug's chain to do that.

Not sure what combi boiler I've got but by the time I've gathered my pyjamas, chosen my clothes for tomorrow, used the toilet and found a book to read, the bath is ready. About 10min I'd guess? Then add cold water as appropriate and get in. I can also do the washing up and run a bath at the same time although the water pressure is crap when it's coming out of two taps at once. It's not a problem though, if it came out faster the bath might over run before I'd finished the washing up. I wash up under a running tap.

OP if your radiator is too cold have you turned up the thermostat on the radiator to the max? Mine goes up to 5, on 2 it won't feel particularly hot.

theblackradiator · 01/01/2023 08:51

@Snowflake2 yes most, infact probably all new combis water maximum temperature is only 65 degrees now to avoid scalding injuries apparently. the legionella thing is only an issue in water storage tanks and not combis. I'm assuming your combi is a good few years old. my dad's is a 2011 combi and his water goes much hotter. Everything is made shit these days.

OP posts:
theblackradiator · 01/01/2023 08:57

Lister80 · 31/12/2022 21:43

Watch the video within this link...
It goes on to mention
"Viessmann Vitodens 111-W hybrid – combi boiler with a built in water tank"

And also it goes onto mention if you ioverspec, new boilers have a module that reads sensors and if there is a lower demand it should turn down intake!

your link didn't work so I couldn't watch the video but yes if you like to have a bath I'd opt for a boiler with a water storage tank I wish I'd have done that. infact I wish I'd have got my back boiler repaired as it was repairable.

OP posts:
RedRiverShore2 · 01/01/2023 09:04

Our pressure has been over 2 before when it has been operating, usually if DH has overfilled it a bit, at the moment it's about 1.5, I always keep a beady eye on my pressure as although boiler is only 5 years old, radiators are about 25 years old so have occasionally sprung a very small leak at valves and often the only way you know is if the pressure drops as the leak can dry as quick as it is leaking.

Jinglebellrocks · 01/01/2023 09:05

Keep the tap on really low to give the hot water a chance to come through, when it get hot turn it up alittle. Try the preheat button too.

Jinglebellrocks · 01/01/2023 09:05

gets^

RedRiverShore2 · 01/01/2023 09:06

My hot water seems to come through hotter if the heating is on, no idea why

Danikm151 · 01/01/2023 09:09

I have to start my hot tap slow then turn it to max after a minute or so then the flow of water stays hot

FountainOfOof · 01/01/2023 09:14

What kind of combi have you installed? It sounds rubbish. Have you read the manual- particularly about setting an appropriate water temperature?
The whole point of a combi is hot water on demand.

Ariela · 01/01/2023 11:12

One thing worth considering for those considering replacing their boiler & lagged tank with a combi boiler, if at any point you might look at adding solar to heat your hot water, you need a tank to do it.

Lister80 · 01/01/2023 14:06

theblackradiator · 01/01/2023 08:57

your link didn't work so I couldn't watch the video but yes if you like to have a bath I'd opt for a boiler with a water storage tank I wish I'd have done that. infact I wish I'd have got my back boiler repaired as it was repairable.

Google "Heatable Boiler size calculator - What size boiler do I need?"

heatable.co.uk/boiler-advice/what-size-boiler-for-my-home?awc=18758_1672578758_f8d9a8ffa83769076316e229e7b00f0b

Within the website there is a video which mentions...

new boilers have a module that cuts gas flow if the demand is not required - if that is true then........?

There are combi storage hybrids - this is true then.......?

Elphame · 01/01/2023 14:12

Having been alternatively frozen and scalded whenever I've stayed anywhere with a combi, we opted to retain a hot water tank when we replaced the elderly boiler a few years ago.

I'm so glad we did!