Almost 11yo cannot sleep

[AgathaMystery]

Not sure if this is the right section but I would love some help or advice.

DD (almost 11) is struggling terribly with her sleep. She has always struggled a bit to fall asleep but the past few weeks have been awful. She gets so so upset & we don’t know how to help her. She is an average, healthy girl in all respects and does not have a phone or device so I know that isn’t an issue.

She is up at 7 every school day & is tired each morning. School is 8-4 & she does sport after school on tues, weds, thurs, & Saturday (her choice). She has a good hot lunch at school, snack when she gets in & tea at about 6-6:30pm. She usually has a pudding and we watch some TV.

Bedtime is 8pm & lights out 8:30pm latest. She reads in bed. I make sure she brushes her teeth before she starts reading so she doesn’t get back out of bed once she’s there. There is the usual ‘forgot a drink’ ‘need a wee’ most nights but by 10pm she is up in tears sobbing that she can’t sleep and is so tired. This is probably 4-5 nights a week.

It’s horrible and is impacting us all. On weds & Thurs her sports club run until 7:30 or 7:45 so she isn’t in bed until 9pm as she comes home (very cold) has a shower and a second tea before bed. She also does sport each day at school.

Does anyone have any tips? She hates bananas and milk so they are not a bedtime snack option.

And remind her it doesn't matter if she sleeps, rest is good even if it's lying in the dark. I always used to fall asleep reading and the book would fall on my face.

If the melatonin works, I’d give it her each night that she has to get up for school the next day. Then in a few weeks start doing every other night and gradually stop it.

Id try a weighted blanket! Made a huge difference in my sleep. Does she read IN bed? I did that for awhile and it was Not a good choice for my sleep. I bought a cheap comfy chair and I will read there for X amount of time then get in bed.

I would like to push her bedtime back a little but DH is really anti this because she is so tired in the mornings. Going to bed too early when you're not properly tired, and lying there for hours fretting about not being able to sleep is going to make insomnia worse.

I agree with you on this one, she needs to go to bed a bit later.

Sounds like you have good sleep hygiene and trying all the usual things that help.
My DD was a poor sleeper but has got better! She loves a weighted blanket.
There was a lot of overthinking going on too. So dealing with any worries or anxiety might help. I set aside 20/30minutes to talk at bedtime still.
Curiously one thing that was a game changer was talking to her about what 'falling asleep ' feels like. That drifting sensation really scared her and she would fight it and keep herself awake.
There's a tiktok trend at the moment about tips that the military use for getting to sleep fast. I have no idea if they work though.
Breathing exercises and guided meditations can be really helpful. I found a really useful document on some local authority website that had a load of scripts on it. I adapted one for a group of teens and was amazed at how well it worked. Twenty chatty teens were virtually asleep in about 2 minutes.
Tell her rest is nearly as good as sleep as long as you feel calm and relaxed.

I’m definitely taking all this on board. I’m going to be super zen tomorrow about bedtime.

whilst boiling up a lettuce for her to sip. 😀 I’m off to Google lettuce tea. I’ve ordered some magnesium too as we needed new vitamins.

That's very early for a Yr6 child. Most will be 9-11pm. She might need to come in, have a shower, PJs, warm milk or similar then bed maybe 9.30pm to read? Then audio book. Lights out at 10

11pm - I’m in my 40’s & usually lights out before the !! She’s 10.

I know teens are different.

Don’t get too stressed about it as that will exacerbate. Tell her not to cry. She’s 11 not four - not unkindly but with an expectation that crusting won’t solve anything.
Try a new routine to break the cycle.
Pillow spray.
Weighted blanket.
Try this www.mydodow.com/bundles. They’ve worked for everyone I’ve lent ours to - even my mother in law. If link doesn’t work Google dodow
Stop the forgotten drinks palaver too.
Warm bath, stay up a bit later but no reading might help.
Don’t go for deep analysis just accept lots of people including children go through unsettled periods. It passes if not encouraged.

Thanks - very sensible advice!

Totally agree. My 11 year old went up just before 11 then went straight to sleep.

I agree that her bedtime is too early.

Let her listen to an audiobook until she falls asleep.

My always terrible sleeper got even worse & for the first time tearful about not being able to sleep for a few months before she got her first period. I would agree on a later bedtime but I would also give her a nice place to go to to read when she can't sleep - you're not supposed to stay in bed as your brain then associates bed with not falling asleep.

I put mine in a magnesium salt bath if I want to push sleep on them )or take them swimming in the river but it's too cold for that just now!)

Have you thought of melatonin? You can buy it online, I buy mine from Piping Rocks

We had a very similar phase - but also during a life-changing event so it was a bit hard to untangle. We also have an 8.30 bedtime but she doesn't have to have lights out. She was prescribed melatonin eventually it and it had an incredible impact - we were absolutely amazed. Honestly - speak to your GP.

Now, about 9 months down the line, she takes it most evenings but not all, she decides how she feels about it. It just really helped her get out of the cycle of being awake for hours and hours every night. I was nervous - and sceptical - but it changed our lives.

An 8 o clock bedtime for an 11 year old is insanely early.No wonder she can't sleep!

Also maybe slightly less telly when she gets home? How much is she watching? Telly emits a blue light that can interfere with sleep

Has she started her periods yet? I was like that at the same age, always tired. One of my friends is in her 40s and still doesn't sleep the week before her period.

Can you try a later bedtime but with a wind down routine.

Bath instead of a shower, hot chocolate and reading, then bed.

What is she like in the holidays / at the weekend?

Obviously it’s great she’s doing all this sport but is it stressing her out? Does she need a bit of downtime? Or is that impractical?

My 13 daughter has this problem. For her it is the silence that gets her mind ticking making her unable to sleep. Just something playing on very low volume for her to focus on helps hugely.

My youngest has problems sleeping and sounds like your dd - he has similar phases.

Pushing his bedtime later is necessary sporadically to stop him lying awake. However he isn't allowed to get up again once I've read to him (he's 11 and still needs this to the extent he always chooses a story over staying up longer) except to go (quietly without announcing it or asking permission) to the toilet or to get water.

The key for him is that we've redefined post bedtime as cosy rest time in his room and emphasised that he doesn't have to be asleep by a certain time. This takes the weird counterproductive pressure to get to sleep away, so he actually falls asleep better!

He's always allowed to put the light back on and read if he can't sleep, because it avoids spirals of over-thinking.

We actually had some pediatric referrals and he was assessed for ASD (didn't meet the threshold although he has traits).

He has some sensory issues and a "busy" head, like your DD he has a weighted blanket and occasionally takes melatonin gummies. He always has an audio book playing if sleeping alone (old fashioned CD player as prefer to avoid an Alexa in a bedroom) and a coloured night light, and both those help (although when he shares with a sibling on holiday he doesn't need the CD or light).

@MNHQ why on earth has my reply - which explains what works for my similar 11 year old - been hidden?

My DD (10) has the same routine, and her bedtime is also 830 except for two nights when she's home later, but she does have to be up at 615 for school.
Don't forget to tell her it's a phase, most people have times when they don't sleep well and then it passes.
DD likes audio books so she's not thinking that she can't get to sleep, the. When she's had enough, switches it to a play list.

Could you pull her from sport at school for a couple of weeks?
Is she rehydrating enough - both fluid and salts?
Is she eating enough protein/ proper food?
Remind her she's only nervous about the sporting events because she cares? (If you think that is the problem)

My 11 year old has always had trouble falling asleep, and trouble getting up in the mornings (on weekends if she doesn't have activities then she'll sleep until midday easily) although once she is up she is ok and about she is ok. The school nurse suggested putting her to bed later, so she spends less time trying and failing to fall asleep, the doctor suggested melatonin (she's been prescribed it since she was 5 but only uses on and off) every night at 7 for a few weeks to reset her body clock.
So two very different pieces of advice. I decided to opt for the nurse's suggestion as then we'd get some peace and quiet together after little brother has gone to bed but it that didn't work I'd have gone for the doctor's suggestion.

I think you're treating an 11year old like a toddler. Snack and milk before bed? Bed at 8? Time to accept she's growing up I think.