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Work- male senior's 'sense of humour'

35 replies

Monsteraobliqua · 18/11/2022 07:12

Hi all.

I would ideally like some support in keeping my gob shut at work.

Some details fudged as this could be outing but the principles are the same.

I am retraining in quite a tough career to get into and have a part time, entry level position working with those who do what I hope will be my eventual job (not necessarily the same dept). There is a chance I will come across them as part of my training or early career. I'm actually in the same broader organisation I will be in when I qualify (public sector).

Most of the team are great and I love the work. Exception is the most senior male member of staff, who is the only other male in our dept except a trainee and a couple of temps I see occasionally.

His 'sense of humour' is really winding me up. He likes to throw his weight around and say things to junior staff such as me 'in jest' that would amount to bullying if serious. Things such as 'are you going to cry', criticism in front of clients for things I have not done, and barking orders. Im not going into loads of detail but it is constant.

Most other staff, including my manager, moan a lot about him andcare sometimes upset, but it is tolerated as 'his sense of humour' because he is very experienced. Me, I was quite senior before I left to retrain (not as senior as him), in another industry, and am appalled at his behaviour, mostly because he does not treat counterparts, men, or seniors this way. It genuinely affects morale. His ways of working seem designed to put pressure on juniors and cause a fuss, simply because he is 'the great I Am'. He can wind it back and be quite charming when he thinks he's gone too far so i think it is deliberate. I think he just likes being able to affect people's morale and mood.

I have a thick skin, i don't go home and cry, it is the principle I am bothered about.

I mentioned it to my manager and she said she would be more than happy to escalate it if I put something in writing but this was only after one or two incidents and I wasn't prepared to rock the boat so early. She implied that she's well aware of his behaviour but can't act without a formal complaint.

I'm just not sure what to do. I've tried smiling and nodding, asking seriously what he wants doing, responding to his jokes which he likes to a point, but I don't want 'banter' in front of clients when he's always the one making the jokes at others' expense. It's tedious and unprofessional. I've also seen that he likes making the jokes but not taking them so I have pulled back, in case I go too far in his opinion and he creates a problem.

He's been in the job a long time and to be fair, is very competent. He just behaves like a bully boy to juniors, who don't want to risk their jobs.

I think the right course of action on balance given my future is to keep quiet, but this is not my strong point when I see this sort of behaviour. I don't like to ignore this sort of high handed nonsense, but I won't 'win' and could affect my future career, potentially. If he was gunning for me and i made a mistake, then I got a disciplinary or the sack then it would be for the same larger employer as when I qualify and it could be a serious issue.

I'm honestly not going into more specific detail, but does anyone have any strategies for zoning it out or managing this when he is putting me or others down?

The temptation is to ask him what male seniors or contemporaries have said in the past to his jokes but I feel this would be unwise.

I hate being in the position of not wanting to cross some tosspot but here I am.

OP posts:
Faircastle · 18/11/2022 07:17

Consultant surgeon?

If so then I don't know what to suggest. The system is very hierarchical.

AlisonDonut · 18/11/2022 07:21

You could, every time he bullies anyone, sit down.

Then open a book, note the date and time and location. Then note down who was in the room. And then note down what he said word for word.

If he asks what you are doing you say 'i have been advised to record every incident of bullying I witness'. If he asks who advised you, you are not at liberty to say.

You keep that book on you, take a photo at the end of each entry and email it to your home email account.

When you have 10 take the book (if he hasn't stolen it), or your printouts, and put a grievance in.

AdamRyan · 18/11/2022 07:22

I mentioned it to my manager and she said she would be more than happy to escalate it if I put something in writing but this was only after one or two incidents and I wasn't prepared to rock the boat so early. She implied that she's well aware of his behaviour but can't act without a formal complaint.

She sounds like she wants to manage him. So i would make a complaint in writing. It would be straightforward. One or two specific examples of his behaviour (where you were, who else was there), the impact on you, what you'd like to be different. Keep it professional.

Interested in this thread?

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Heartstopper · 18/11/2022 07:24

I'm a junior in a very small company working for a pittance after a long career break. Previously I was a manager in a professional career. My boss sounds very similar to yours. I just refuse to be intimidated by him. I am polite and cooperative but I wont be bullied. I find if you firmly assert yourself people like this tend to tone it down.

Alexandernevermind · 18/11/2022 07:25

Next time he does this to you stay stone faced, no reaction whatsoever. Even though people with laugh along out of embarrassment he is making an arse of himself in front of clients. Do you feel able to speak to him one to one afterwards, and say "please don't speak to me like that, it isn't appreciated or appropriate". I bet he'll respect you more for it, he doesn't so it to other seniors becasue he knows he won't get away with it. You don't need a strategy, a clever retort or have to put up and shut up, just be polite, professional but firm.

Monsteraobliqua · 18/11/2022 07:25

Faircastle · 18/11/2022 07:17

Consultant surgeon?

If so then I don't know what to suggest. The system is very hierarchical.

Not a surgeon but you're on the right lines in terms of how specialised and 'untouchable' the job is, plus how much ego seems to be tolerated with it. And yes, the hierarchy.

OP posts:
RogersOrganismicProcess · 18/11/2022 07:34

We had the same with a new member of SLT. He went through the establishment obliterating other people’s careers within the first year of him arriving a third of the team were with pushed or left due to stress, this is in a profession where this kind of turn over is unheard of (also public sector). He was unprofessional inside and outside of work and his own performance and attendance was shocking. I ended up whistleblowing but did so on the knowledge it would be the end of that career path (20 years in).

It was difficult at the time, because the people I reported him to were also the fools who employed him, and went on the defensive. However, he is also no longer in that role, causing mass destruction, and I can sleep at night. My new career is also bringing me joy and renewed excitement.

Saying that though, think carefully before you do anything!

HashBrownandBeans · 18/11/2022 07:34

I’m having the same issue. No idea what to do. I’ve been in the working world long enough to know these men are untouchable

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 18/11/2022 07:43

I would respond factually to his comments like they were a genuine question. “Are you going to cry?” Look puzzled and say “No, thanks for asking”.
Keep a game face at all times and don’t give him a hint it’s getting to you.
Put a complaint in after you are established in your new career?

Monsteraobliqua · 18/11/2022 07:59

Thanks all for the great advice.

In terms of recording incidents, I may do this, but not show him, just as some backup in case things go south rather than 'starting' with him.

I initially tried humour as I say, but think that the polite, poker faced route is better as PPs suggest. He does keep going, looking to make a fool of you, then will try being overly nice so it is irritating, but I think civil and cool is the way to go. It's just quite hard when I know his aim is to belittle. I'm not sure whether it might work to try and lay some ground rules as a PP suggests. I'll give this some thought as he may respect it.

Not to spend time on amateur psychoanalysis but I actually think some of this comes from covering up social ineptness, rather than genuine unkindness. As in, he's now in a position where people have to laugh at his jokes and he just goes for the easy route of mean humour.

So sorry to hear of those who have come up against this sort of idiocy, especially when addressing it has had huge impacts on your own career. I appreciate the acknowledgement that it isn't as simple as 'go to your manager' or 'tell him to sod off'.

OP posts:
OldReliable · 18/11/2022 08:01

So does he only do this to women?

If so could be sexual harassment. Picking on your because of your sex.

CrapBucket · 18/11/2022 08:04

Argh isn't it shit, that we all understand and recognise the situation entirely.

Is it worth asking him for his advice (🤢) then explaining you have to deal with someone who [describe his own behaviour] and what should you do?

Rainbowshine · 18/11/2022 08:07

Your manager is wrong, they can feedback to the person about the inappropriateness of the behaviour and it’s impact (with this sort of person focusing on how it affects their reputation is usually the best way). The employer has shown that they are aware (your manager represents them) and owe the employees a duty of care to act to provide a safe workplace and prevent a hostile degrading environment. Do you have a whistleblowing helpline where you can report this anonymously?

BobbyBobbyBobby · 18/11/2022 08:10

It’s unlikely the others are going to complain as most likely to keep this heads down, so you won’t get anywhere if you claim sexual harassment and will most likely end up as being labelled awkward and won’t get anywhere within the company or may even lose your job.

I would start looking elsewhere as he is there to stay and you aren’t in their eyes.

SavingsThreads · 18/11/2022 08:10

If so could be sexual harassment. Picking on your because of your sex.

That's not what sexual harassment is.

Monsteraobliqua · 18/11/2022 08:12

OldReliable · 18/11/2022 08:01

So does he only do this to women?

If so could be sexual harassment. Picking on your because of your sex.

Yes I think he does only do it to women. I've only seen it that way, but then there aren't really many men in the dept so im not sure whether this is intentional. It's also hierarchical since we have several women who have his equivalent job title (but he is more senior). He takes the mick a bit with one of the younger ones, in quite a friendly way, but is certainly not undermining or belittling with them.

I've never heard him say anything sexual in nature. To be honest, I don't think that's his modus. Even if he wanted to, I think he's too smart to jeopardise his job that way.

OP posts:
Brefugee · 18/11/2022 08:13

so he does it to women, your (female) manager knows - he does it to her too? - and will only escalate if someone else complains?

heart to heart time with your manager about her shit management skills? she is supposed to stand up for her staff regardless. And yes, escalate.

It probably won't change anything, but it's worth a try, right?

PermanentTemporary · 18/11/2022 08:15

I like the polite and stone faced route. And making records. And I'm afraid yes, I would try to keep my head down at this stage. If there's anywhere else you could work I'd look into that.

At least he's competent I guess.

xJ0y · 18/11/2022 08:17

Every single time he says something cutting say "ouch" quite cheerfully.
He can't really badmouth you for being "unable to take a joke".
If he asks you if you're going to cry say "me, no. Do you want to make people cry?"
The book is a good idea but I'd try the shining a l8ght on it technique first.
Ie "Risky"
"Ouch"
Not moving in these high echelons but have worked with a few dominant assholes to push their distorted narratives as "the way normal people act".

Luredbyapomegranate · 18/11/2022 08:17

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 18/11/2022 07:43

I would respond factually to his comments like they were a genuine question. “Are you going to cry?” Look puzzled and say “No, thanks for asking”.
Keep a game face at all times and don’t give him a hint it’s getting to you.
Put a complaint in after you are established in your new career?

I’d also vote for factual + puzzled.

You could go and have an off the record meeting with HR, after you’ve written things down for a few months.. they won’t do anything I don’t think, but if someone else complains in future it might add weight.

crack on with building your career and get out.

XanaduKira · 18/11/2022 08:27

AlisonDonut · 18/11/2022 07:21

You could, every time he bullies anyone, sit down.

Then open a book, note the date and time and location. Then note down who was in the room. And then note down what he said word for word.

If he asks what you are doing you say 'i have been advised to record every incident of bullying I witness'. If he asks who advised you, you are not at liberty to say.

You keep that book on you, take a photo at the end of each entry and email it to your home email account.

When you have 10 take the book (if he hasn't stolen it), or your printouts, and put a grievance in.

I would love to have the nerve to do this!

Sorry you're in this position Op. How long will iou be training for? If it's a manageable period (less than 12 months) then I'd be tempted to let it go. Any longer will be tough but given the hierarchy you describe, it's hard to imagine a positive outcome for you, sorry.

Can you do your training anywhere else to get away from him?

xJ0y · 18/11/2022 08:29

It's true, hr would do nothing. They proect their asset and manage out those who might make the asset leave. Well, I haven't worked in a hospital but my last job was a hr specialty.

IfOnlyOCould · 18/11/2022 08:35

Are you able to talk to him about it at all? In a normal way. "I don't know if you realise how your comments are coming across"

LindseyHoyleSpeaks · 18/11/2022 08:37

Your management team is weak and that speaks volumes. They can act before a formal complaint, they are choosing not to.

Monsteraobliqua · 18/11/2022 08:46

xJ0y · 18/11/2022 08:29

It's true, hr would do nothing. They proect their asset and manage out those who might make the asset leave. Well, I haven't worked in a hospital but my last job was a hr specialty.

Sadly I think this would be the case. In terms of expertise, he is far, far more of an asset than I am and I don't think formal action would get me anywhere. I think the others realise this too hence it goes unreported.

I could move elsewhere, but this job is convenient and great experience plus a good team apart from him. If it becomes a bigger problem I could go, I've got the experience now. I just don't want it to come to that. The dept should be big enough for both of us, I am just going to have to be accepting of behaviour I don't like.

Training is a couple more years. I don't have to stay in this job that long, it's not mandatory, just a good fit for for me.

OP posts:
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