Placebo tablets in blister packs

[Icedlatteplease]

DS15 has finally took antipsycotics today. 🥳🥳🥳

However how we did it was me and DD also took a paracetamol at the same time. But given he needs to suck not swallow the risperidone im not sure if he wont get smart tomorrow.

It would help if there was some kind of something very small and round that comes in a blister pack we could take at the same time as DS. We might run with a saccharine tablet as it looks right but if it came in a blister pack it would be better. I wondered if mumsnet hive mind could think of a solution

Funnily enough i haven't put that responsibility on her. She struck up a discussion with her brother yesterday over dinner and the situation organically arose.

Yes I'm aware of the potential trust issues. But unless SS sort out, DS is on his last fortnight at home. Thats going to be no good for trust issues either. At the moment everyone who loves him is waying in

If you can't get something harmless in a blister pack (even saccharine has side effects and I would avoid daily paracetamol if poss) then something basic like white tic tacs decanted into an old tablet bottle would look convincing and be suckable.

Hence me thinking about sacherrine tablets and placebos.

Although vitamins are also sustainable long term. Of course if I took the Caffèine tablets as an adult that would be my choice, but I'd rather go with the complimints. But every suggestion whether I choose to take it up or not gives me another angle on the situation

Not what you wanted to hear but a few years ago a 19 year old relative was feeling very low and his family persuaded him to see a GP. The GO referred him to a Psychiatrist.

He had to wait a few weeks and saw the Psychiatrist who after chatting with him for only ten minutes prescribed him anti psychotic medication.

He took one and felt terrible and the tablets were researched by family with one of the main side affects being suicide.

The tablets went in the bin as we all thought they would so more harm than good.

We got him to take 5-htp which was bought over the counter/online. We milk shake powders that body builders use to gain weight as he was very underweight. The whole family were involved in making sure he ate well and regularly and taking an interest in his welfare.

He overcame the low moods with the family support and 5-htp which he took for around six months.

He’s perfectly fine now.

At the time we wanted to complain about him being given anti psychotic medication after only a ten minute consultation but the complaint had to come from him and at the time he was trying to concentrate on feeling better and didn’t want to get involved making a complaint.

Have you gone down every avenue before taking the route of anti psychotic medication as it’s all too easy just to take what has been prescribed.

I agree with others that I don’t think you and your daughter should be tricking him that you are both also taking the same medication as that could backfire if he really does need the medication.

@zippalippa that's not a "blister pack", that's a compliance aid or a monitored dosage system(MDS). They sometimes have a blister type closure. I think what OP is after are tablets that are in a standard blister pack (like paracetamol) that you can buy over the counter, but that look like DS's medication.

White tictacs is a great idea.

Have you gone down every avenue before taking the route of anti psychotic medication

Yes

Unlike your relative, DS is very psychotic and has been now for 11 months. We are walking/have walked a very different path.

Just as all your family wanted to be involved in making sure your relative did want he needed to do to get well, it shouldn't be surprising that DD wants to do the same. If you read my later posts it's isnt so much trickery as trying to provide the best reassurance. Of course it's a fine line and ultimately its likely only the outcome which will define which side of the line it falls.

Strepsils?

I hope that your son responds well to the medication if this is the case but I also hope that you and your family have been made aware of all the side effects -

childmind.org/article/what-parents-should-know-about-risperdal/

‘
Risperdal is controversial because side effects that include substantial weight gain and metabolic, neurological and hormonal changes that can be harmful. Some experts are concerned that children are being treated with the drug in lieu of other treatment — including behavioral treatment — that could be effective without the risk of these side effects.

Risperdal has been in the news over the last several years because of thousands of lawsuits from families who say they were not informed about side effects that might adversely affect their kids, and the kids were not taken off the medication when problems developed. Many of the suits are on behalf of boys who, in a rare side effect, developed breasts because of an increase in a hormone called prolactin.’

You are persistent.

Yes I'm aware of the side effects. However DS is on a low dose being well monitored and currently on the low side of a healthy weight. That covers the side effects listed on your website

The side effects of leaving DS unmedicated? He attacks people mostly me and has caused serious long term injury, he is unable to leave the house and sometimes his room, he paces his room all night, his teeth are decaying rapidly as they were never strong in the first place and he wont brush, he is unable to engage with the teachers who come to the house because all external learning has failed, he is unable to engage with any of the behavioural people who come to the house, he is unable to recognise let alone engage with close family members he knows and loves well, sometimes he doesn't recognise me or DD. He hasn't left the house for the last fortnight and barely leaves his room. And that's just off the top of my head without touching the impact on the rest of the family or actually what his experience of life has been.

I didn't ask for advice on whether DS should be medicated. I asked advice on a very specific consideration within that and i appreciate everyone who has contributed to that whether i ultimately follow that advice or not. Your advice is completely inappropriate and based on your own experiences which, and to be fair I'm assuming from the limited information you gave in your others post bear no semblance in the slightest to the last 11 months of our lives.

Sometimes people really don't need to hear what you want to say.

The polite were on a different path to you should have been enough to clue you into to this.

@OneFrenchEgg yes albeit currently mainly with adults with LD and autism. Covert medication certainly isn't routine i.e. something we consider for everyone but it is common i.e. for our population who lack capacity to consent in all cases it is less invasive than forced medication during a trial of medication and therefore preferred. In adults obviously if medication is indicated long-term you might prefer depot injections. A lot of our patients are on a lot of medication on admission and the task is to reduce them, but we still encounter patients who refuse medication on occasion. It's reasonably common in older ages for the same reason. It creates huge ethical issues though. I did not advocate the OP do it. I recommend she discuss both convincing her DS to take meds as she proposes AND alternatives with the prescriber. She has already mentioned that being taken into care has been discussed. If that includes inpatient MH care that may be considered there. I personally think it is the prescriber's responsibility to give guidance on this and a clear timescale for how long this should take. Any MH professional will have encountered this situation and should give advice. The OP says, and I agree, if the goal is demonstrating the drug is non-toxic which her DS may believe and taking a pill at the same time helps that may be appropriate. However, I have no idea how long the med has been prescribed for or what plan B is if it doesn't work (no antipsychotic works for everyone) so this needs discussion with the prescriber.

@Icedlatteplease sorry didn't see your update doh. Yes that's the problem with covert medication. Crushed in peach yoghurt is the usual approach - but he probably prefers to open his own yoghurts now. Is the planned local admission to a children's unit? If so that must be better than social services care - where he will be distressed and they won't necessarily have MH specialisation. I appreciate your hesitancy over both options though. His DSis is hopefully right. If you taking a similar pill at the same time shows him it won't poison him that may buy you some breathing space. Thinking of him, he must feel very very frightened.

Have you thought about asking the pharmacists at his hospital for advice? I would have thought that pharmacists working in psychiatric hospitals might be able to advise?

I hope you get him to take them, it sounds so tough for you all.

You pretty much have the situation
nailed. In its entirety.
😁😁😁

He doesn't eat yoghurt so it was rice pudding but similarly he decided not only would he not eat anything he didn't see open himself but then he decided he'd best not eat anything at all to be on the safe side. Despite this Covert medication isn't entirely off the table because even it that is the outcome he'll end up in hospital either way, and he wont find that easy.

Yes the prescribers plan B was (hopefully) a local planned admission. But the situation is complicated with social services chosing now to be an arse which has ultimately put a deadline of a fortnight on everything so noone really knows where the situation will land up. Its a right royal mess.

Thank you for your thoughts. Yes he is utterly terrified. It's heartbreaking

Can I just do a quick shout to everyone who has recommended anything. It's appreciated, all the vitamin recommendations etc. I am looking at them

And a thank you for anyone who has offered positive thoughts. Its appreciated. I'm aware I have answered mostly the negative posts, I guess it slows me to vent a little of my frustration. But actually I appreciate the positive thoughts hugely.

@OllytheCollie thank you for your lengthier explanation, I think maybe the short hand of 'commonly practiced' lost something of the nuance.

That should have been @OllytheCollie . Thank you

Calpol meltlets are still available, and come in blister packs of 16 tablets. If your DD needs paracetamol anyway, you can get those in a supermarket.

How about something like these prebiotic

Luvbiotics Sugar-Free Lozenges with Probiotics & Xylitol and Aloe Vera Promotes Good Bacteria for Fresh Breath, Healthy Gums and Cavity Protection. Mint, Pack of 30 amzn.eu/d/5OwqPbR

Failed at a clicky link there - sorry.

Or homeopathic pills? Though I can't seem to find any that come in a blister pack.

Good luck!

BobbyBobbyBobby breathtakingly inappropriate posts. OP's ds patently obvioulsy does not suffer from 'low mood'
Posts like yours are hurtful and frustrating and I think that Op has been very patient with you.

Icedlatteplease
What a horrendous situation for your whole family. I am so sorry that you are going through this.
I came on to suggest Bassetts vitamins but other beat me to it. Most of the paracetamol/ibuprofen capulets come in blister packs and would be suckable (just). Also calpol 6+ paracetamol melts, but they look like big sweets (and cost and arm and a leg)

Really hoping that you can get the meds in for a few days. How long before you might see some effect of the meds? Is it days or weeks?

And I think your dd sounds amazing.

You missed the point of my post which was not about why it has been prescribed but the side effects that come with it which was why our family made the choice along with the young man that it was not in his best interests to take it as the main side effect was suicide which was why he sought help in the first place as he was suicidal.

When any of us have spoken about anti psychotic drugs many were not aware that suicide is a side effect.

Again it might have been worth asking questions as opposed to making assumptions.

I am actually very aware from general interest that suicide is a listed side effect of many mental health medications. I am also aware of the discussion around this research. That is suicide rates are higher in those with serious mental illness and you don't medicate those without mental health difficulties with these kinds of medication. Therefore It is very hard to formulate an ethical trial to actually prove conclusively whether the higher suicide rates are directly as a result of the medication or, with apologies for the appallingly callous phrasing, inevitable anyway. Correlation does not always mean causation, is does mean it has to be included in the side effects list.

I'm also aware of the research that states in cases of minor depression, daily exercise is proven to be as effective as medication. Anecdotally that exercise is the best treatment for some( but definitely not all) types of depression has been suspected for at least twenty years. Actually my 16 year old daughter knows this too. Not all of us are that clueless about mental illness.

Of course the reason why you are prescribed the medicine is absolutely central. a dose for low mood maybe different than one for psychosis, with potentially very different side effects and potentially very different risks if you chose not to take it.

Also people can be suicidal for very different reasons, if the primary diagnosis was depression, that still doesn't mean the medication is necessarily wrong.

Before evangelising on the internet, it's well worth asking questions first. Especially when it turns out the person you are preaching to seems to know a hell of a lot more about mental illness generally. When you are taking a thread off the remit of the original post, it is worth asking if that is appropriate first. When you get the polite nudge that actually your circumstances aren't relevant, it might be worth quietly slipping away or even starting your own thread on the relative merits of social prescribing vs medicinal prescribing as opposed being desperate to prove you were right. Knowing when to apologise instead of doubling down is quite a skill.

Personally I dont consider is encouraging strangers on the internet to stop taking prescribed medication advisable or admirable. You will not likely to be dealing with the fallout if actually that medication is very much needed.

That was @BobbyBobbyBobby

@steppemum
Yes she is amazing. yesterday doesn't even scratch to surface of her amazing ness.😁😁😁
Risperidone can take up to 6 weeks for full effect. If he keeps taking it im hoping we might see something sooner

@Icedlatteplease you are clearly very well informed and have thought this through carefully. @BobbyBobbyBobby in addition to the challenge of research rates of suicidal ideation in people who already have serious mental health needs with or without medication we know in animal studies if we alter brain chemistry we can have adverse impacts on the effects of other neuro-transmitters which affect mood and motivation. So when we prescribe something psychoactive, even for brain disorders like epilepsy and dementia we can never say for certain they won't adversely affect mood. Many patients are not affected BUT these are always important side effect to monitor. Agree with everyone else @Icedlatteplease your DD sounds like a wonderful sister, but for all your sakes I hope DS starts to recover soon.