What would you describe as 'Feral' behaviour in children?

[TatmacSquare]

Ex described our children as feral and stands by the use of this word.
His reasons:
DS1, who has ASD, sometimes (not always) eats with his hands when he can't cope with the demand of cutlery use, sometimes has greasy hair because he struggles with regular showers, has meltdowns.

DS2, who is awaiting ASD assessment cannot cope with anyone touching his hair, it feels painful to him, ex cannot remember this despite being told repeatedly over months and months and touched DS hair repeatedly this weekend resulting in DS refusing to stay with him.

DS3, who'd been waiting all day to see ex after he'd been separately with DS2, then DS1, arrived at playground expecting a good 30mins to 1hr with dad to be told by ex he only had 5-10mins to spend, and walked off from playground angry with dad.

DS1 and DS2 both have behavioural issues related to their neurotype and struggling to cope with sensory input and unexpected changes.

Obviously I'm not happy with ex description of the children, but just wondering if I might be unreasonable. Not braving AIBU though...

He's a shit father.

No, they have sensory issues.

I have ASD and I struggled with people brushing my hair. It’s agony.

No children are ‘feral’. Children have different needs.

The ex, however, he’s a prick.

It's not a kind word to use about your own children when they are upset. It doesn't mean anything objectively (well it means living wild, fending for themselves which presumably they are not). I might jokingly refer to my children and my parenting as feral in the summer holidays when things slip and I treat going swimming as a good enough wash and crisps and ice lollies as adequate meals. BUT I wouldn't say it about them if they were upset about having a shower or about eating food that wasn't ice lollies. I would want to know what the problem was.

Not feral
I would use feral to describe the ones near me that slope about dressed in black, throw fireworks in peoples windows. Don't care about anything including the police and happily put bricks through police/ambulances

Let’s just say if anyone ever said my autistic child was feral I’d be incandescent. And if that person was their father I’d be looking at what other ways he trivialised or failed to meet their needs and considering whether contact was appropriate. I mean not wanting his hair touched isn’t even what I’d call poor behaviour for a NT child - it’s a perfectly reasonable boundary unless there’s a medical/health issue at stake and should be respected.

People are horrified of him saying it yet it’s used to describe children on here all the time.

This is spot on. He doesn't appear to be able to take onboard his dc needs.

He texted me saying he couldn't understand why DS2 had got upset and wanted to go home immediately after ex touched his hair for the 2nd time, then called me wanting to discuss it, I told him DS2 had clearly said the hair touching was the reason and ex got mad at me and said he'd touched his hair the first time and it had been fine (it wasn't - DS2 asked him not to), he couldn't help touching any child's hair, he had touched DDs hair later at the playground and she had liked it. It was all about how hard it was for ex, how upset he was about DS2 wanting to leave, how hard it was to remember the hair issue and how the childrens behaviour had meant he couldn't sleep and how this affects his health. No actual insight or care into DS sensory issues or recognition that they are real and severe.

It is all about ex, and it always is. He is a twat and that is why we are no longer together, but it's so upsetting to see him treating the children this way.

I would use feral for children whose carers are failing to parent them. They may be unused to adults enforcing boundaries, consequences, and manners.

I would not- NOT- use it for children with sensory issues or children in emotional distress.

He's using it to deflect his failures as a dad.

Don't waste energy arguing with him, he's not going to listen.

Just give the kids strategies to manage.

I have only ever heard this word feral used once in real life. My understanding of feral is a wild child, all over the place, can't sit down after being told numerous times.

Was your ex having a hard time with the kids?

I describe my children as feral. They’re not all the time, just when they get on one they don’t listen to a word I say and run around like puppies in that energetic stage where they just go mad. One is NT, the other has behavioural issues, but that’s not what I’m describing - it’s mad energy that they need to get rid of. I certainly don’t use it to describe emotional breakdowns, that has a reason - their feral behaviour is just them going bonkers!

I would have sometimes jokingly described my own (and completely NT) child as feral when she was a toddler/pre-schooler - had unpredictable and off-the-scale tantrums, would run wild if you let her, would get completely caked in dirt etc etc. I wouldn't describe or think of other children as feral, and particularly NOT those who are not NT and those who are upset. I'd want to figure out what had got them upset.

Your ex should know his own children, and should know how to meet their needs. If he doesn't know, he should be grateful that you are taking the time to let him know what your DCs needs are. He shouldn't be saying that sort of thing about his kids because HE doesn't take the time to properly know how to look after them and make them feel safe, and then wonders why they get upset!!

He did have problems with DS2 after the 2nd hair touching because DS was very upset and wouldn't speak to ex anymore, wouldn't hold his hand (he's 11 and not a runner), walked ahead of ex back to pick up point.
Ex then collected DS1 instead who was actually very well behaved.
DS3 was then angry and upset and wouldn't speak to ex because he was disappointed to have the lengthy play he'd been expecting reduced to grumpy ex announcing it would only be 5-10mins.

It's interesting to hear what people mean by feral. Mine are crazy energetic at times, and don't always listen first time (which to me is normal).
I'm afraid I interpret exs words not only as a criticism of the children stemming from ex inability to meet their needs, but also as a criticism of me as a parent because he frequently tells me that their problems are all down to my not properly disciplining, and if I practiced what he believes is proper discipline (ie. Forcing them to shower when they can't cope with it etc, 'consequences' - which don't work due to their neurotypes) all their issues would magically go away.

I only ever hear that word used to describe children on here. I've never heard it in real life and think it's a bit crass. The behaviour would frustrate me though, and I can't say I wouldn't mutter unacceptable words too. I have utmost respect for parents of kids with ASD, it's a thankless job and I think only a saint wouldn't say the wrong things sometimes.
I wouldn't think their father is crap, just frustrated. Which happens to us all. I'd probably feel different if this happened often though.

I'd never use that term to describe the behaviour of any child.

He didn't mutter it in the moment. He wrote it in a text, and when challenged stood by it.

I used a lot worse when my living room was destroyed with a firework by some teenage (13/14yo) boys

@TatmacSquare I get that. But still, I think we are far too hard on people who are absolutely exhausted by their kids. I understand it's his jobs and that's that, and I'm not saying it any easier on you, but it's very difficult to sit tight lipped when your kids aren't fitting into the world.
I can't say I wouldn't try to force my kids into the shower if they were walking around with greasy hair. The touching hair, he may have thought he can try to desensitise them. It's very difficult to be completely at ease with these atypical behaviours. I think your relationship with your ex will be much calmer of you gave him some leeway and tried to understand his position. It's probably coming from a place of fear as to their future. Not a complete lack of love and empathy.
I think this website often paints men as awful crap father's. It's not always the case. We all have pressure to fit into society, we know how hard it can be as a NT person, he's probably thinking how on earth will they cope, if they can't even have a shower.
Try not to blame yourself for it. It's no reflection on you, it's only natural for people to try to source the fault. I've found with my DD who has a language disorder, it's quite difficult to balance what should be corrected behaviour and is my responsibility to correct, and what I should just accept as her norm. Maybe sourcing a local help group for parents with ASD kids could help.

ND children are not feral, they have clear sensory issues and your Ex needs do do some work on how to properly engage with them. We once had a family living next door who I would describe as feral, one little darling once dropped trousers and did a poo right in the middle of our driveway!

The man apparently can’t cope with his children for a couple of hours, one at a time. How the hell is he exhausted by his kids? Unless he’s got some big health/disability issues, that’s pretty crap parenting however you slice it given the OP presumably looks after all of them all the rest of the time.

I don’t care if he’s scared about the future/wants them to fit in/thinks he’s helping - it’s no excuse not to respect child’s differences, boundaries and genuine difficulties and to try and railroad them into the shower or call them names. He by the sounds of it sees them for a few hours a visit, it’s not his place to start trying to “desensitise” child in the context of a short visit in a playground.

It sounds like he is very disappointed in how his children have turned out .

I find it hard to sympathise with someone who is exhausted by his kids behaviours for 1 day per month, and spends the rest of the time sending me messages blaming me for their issues and denying the validity of their feelings.

The thing is, I really don't care about my relationship with ex. I only care about how he behaves towards the children, and i am frustrated by his inability or unwillingness to make simple changes himself which would help the children and improve both his relationship with them and their behaviour around them.

DS1 does shower, he is improving, he used to only manage once a fortnight, now he is up to about 3 times a week. My approach of not forcing him is working, and is allowing him to come at it at his own pace. He has made huge progress from being years behind academically and totally unable to cope with school, to being predicted to achieve several GCSEs, and having positive and what now seem achievable plans for his future career path.
As I explained to ex today, I have to make decisions day to day about what level of encouragement DS can cope with while managing to continue to function at home and at school without becoming overwhelmed.

And ex wasn't trying to desensitise DS2 by touching his hair. Ex said clearly he forgot, he finds it too hard to remember, and he thinks that because one child likes having her hair touched it is ok to touch DS hair as well.

@Thegreenballoon I'm not saying you're wrong, I do agree with you on some things. However, neither of us knows the true context of the situation and we're both assuming a lot.
What I wrote was a generalisation. It does sound like he is disappointed in how they've turned out. A lot of parents with kids who have send go through a grieving period. That period might never end. Parenting kids with SEN is relentless and I think parents who's kids are NT just have no idea. It can be completely exhausting even spending 5 mins because you're expecting to have a nice short interaction but you're left with a child having a meltdown. You're expected to know triggers and how to deal with them. You have to always be the bigger person. It can never be about you because you're the adult and they didn't ask for it. It's very hard.
With split custody you're not living with them 24/7 it's very difficult to understand how problematic touching hair truly is for that child. Especially when the parents aren't getting on well so you might think 'you're having me on, it's just hair'. People are people and they do silly things.
I just think we need to have a little bit more understanding for parents in these situations. On both sides. It doesn't make the actions right but having compassion goes a long way.

@TatmacSquare I mean if he sees them once a month I'm surprised he remembers their names, let alone who likes their hair touched.
If you both want to help each other help the kids, then I'm afraid you'll both need to try to get on better and he needs to see the kids more so he becomes part of their routine. If either party isn't prepared to do that, than he's doing more harm than good seeing them once a month.

A feral child is one that is left to their own devices as may include any of the following - roaming the streets at all hours, stealing, shoplifting, fighting, smoking, drinking alcohol, taking drugs, letting off fireworks in the street, Spitting/uri aging/defecating in public, loud and abusive to strangers, graffiti, vandalism, carding a weapon, selling drugs, in a gang..... you get the picture.

Doeang sound remotely like any of your children.

Is your ex uneducated?