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Liz Jones - I do feel a tiny bit sorry for her but she still has no self awareness

294 replies

QuebecBagnet · 14/11/2022 07:50

Article in the DM today about how she's getting evicted from her rental cottage as the landlady wants to sell. Focus of the article is renters with no security - which I agree is an issue.

So she talks about how when she was made bankrupt she struggled to find somewhere to rent. Had to put all her nice furniture in storage. She has spent 59k "decorating" this cottage - new kitchen, underfloor heating, etc and has now lost all that.

I'm sorry but 59k would be a 50% on a 2 bed terrace in many cities in the UK. I don't know maybe she couldn't get a mortgage for the rest. Though surely she didn't spend all her savings on this cottage. And how did she have 59k if she was made bankrupt a few years ago?

Anyway the thing which really bugged me is she says women of her age have had it harder than "generation rent". Really? Had it harder when she had the opportunity to buy property (and did so) when it was a quarter of the price it is now. She spent years writing about her luxury lifestyle, her horses, trips to Paris, expensive skincare, expensive yoga classes.

I have limited sympathy for someone who has spunked a very good income on frivolous shit and moans about being skint especially when they continue to make shit financial decisions.

Still wish I knew who the Rock Star was. Was Jim Kerr the most likely suspect?

OP posts:
ToInfinityAgain · 14/11/2022 15:00

How did she become bankrupt? It suggests she must have been exceptionally profligate and living beyond her means for an extended period.

I do hope the article’s made up to generate page views, but if it’s true then it really would all be the inevitable outcome of her own decisions.

Moanycowbag · 14/11/2022 15:28

ToInfinityAgain · 14/11/2022 15:00

How did she become bankrupt? It suggests she must have been exceptionally profligate and living beyond her means for an extended period.

I do hope the article’s made up to generate page views, but if it’s true then it really would all be the inevitable outcome of her own decisions.

If you read the Dartmoor dreary/diaries she threw ridiculous amounts of money at everything, from ott house and barn renovations, bat sanctuaries and holistic vets and pissed through her money and couldn't cover her tax bill.

AnApparitionQuipped · 14/11/2022 15:32

ToInfinityAgain · 14/11/2022 15:00

How did she become bankrupt? It suggests she must have been exceptionally profligate and living beyond her means for an extended period.

I do hope the article’s made up to generate page views, but if it’s true then it really would all be the inevitable outcome of her own decisions.

It's this attitude:

"I know it was idiotic to spend tens of thousands of pounds of my own money on it, but I work from home and needed heating. The bathroom was mouldy and having a hot bath is my one luxury.

In all, I spent £59,000. I updated the heating with a new boiler and radiators upstairs and replaced the fusebox. I put in flagstones, I had the chimney swept, installed new blinds and shelving and I spent more than £12,000 on a beautiful Neptune kitchen.

I know. People warned me not to do it up, as I have no legal redress. But my home is so important to me: I get depressed in a dump."

If the heating/bathroom were unfit for use, any normal person would ask the landlord to fix them - not install a brand new system at their own cost. I suspect she didn't want it repaired but shabby, or replaced with something cheap.

As for 'I get depressed in a dump' - newsflash, Liz, no one likes living in a dump. But sometimes you have to make do and mend, brighten things up with a cheap coat of paint doing the work yourself; get some second hand curtains or other bits to brighten your house up at minimal cost.

ToInfinityAgain · 14/11/2022 15:36

Moanycowbag · 14/11/2022 15:28

If you read the Dartmoor dreary/diaries she threw ridiculous amounts of money at everything, from ott house and barn renovations, bat sanctuaries and holistic vets and pissed through her money and couldn't cover her tax bill.

Ah, yes, not being on PAYE can be an issue for those who refuse to pay attention to the expected tax bills.

That makes it a (tiny) but more understandable.

Dixiechickonhols · 14/11/2022 15:43

From her complaints about HMRC in article I’d assume unpaid tax resulted in bankruptcy, they don’t mess about.
It sounds like people have warned her not to spend on rental but she’s chosen to ignore. Then it’s fault of everyone else/system not her life choices when inevitable happens.

ToInfinityAgain · 14/11/2022 15:46

Dixiechickonhols · 14/11/2022 15:43

From her complaints about HMRC in article I’d assume unpaid tax resulted in bankruptcy, they don’t mess about.
It sounds like people have warned her not to spend on rental but she’s chosen to ignore. Then it’s fault of everyone else/system not her life choices when inevitable happens.

To be fair to her, there’s a rich vein if “why should I be made to live with the results of my freely-made decisions” running through humanity nowadays, she’s just a particularly egregious example of it.

There are a fair few posts on this site from people who chose to do things that were nearly certain to lead to a hard life but who can’t now believe that they have a hard life.

What annoys me is the tendency for a subset of them to then sneer at anyone who made better choices.

WiddlinDiddlin · 14/11/2022 15:51

Beadpark · 14/11/2022 14:01

I actually find this quite unlikely. For a start, Liz had expert live-in help with the horse care. Then there's the fact that horses get colic even when they have seemed to be perfectly healthy. It can suddenly strike them even if they have the absolute best of nutrition and other care. If the owner wasn't there how would they know that their horse wasn't being looked after properly? I am sure that they visited to check their horse was all right and would have removed them if they weren't getting the right care.

This is a quote from Nellies owner, which I had to find on here as the forum it originally appeared on is long gone (seems it is still on Digital Spy though, but was originally posted on Saddle-Up)...

""Despite you assuring me that Nellie would be kept alone, she was put in with other horses who ran her ragged, despite this, you kept her in with the ponies, one of which bullied her quite badly. You and your vet subjected her to many unnecessary invasive treatments.

You NEVER had to purchase feed for her, despite your lies to the contrary. Every time I visited I brought more than enough....that goes for the bute and riaflex she was having, I brought DOUBLE the amount that she needed. But you've conveniently forgotten that too.

I offered to bring a trailer load of the bedding I was using for her but you told me NOT TO and that you wanted her on straw. I offered to pay for livery & you said not to worry, she'd keep Dream company because Dream had to come in during the summer months because of her laminitus.

2 £40 plants in 2 £50 pots are NOT tiny....not all of us can shop at Harrods garden center sweetie. Neither is my leaving over £2000 worth of rugs and equipment for you to use with your horses. If you're that skint, ebay them.

Also why on earth did a healthy horse arrive at your yard only to be dead less than 4 months later? She was in full work and as fit as a flea. You were going to ride her because you were scared of your own horse which is the only reason you had her saddle in the first place. Yes that saddle that when I picked it up was green with mould.
Whilst I'm grateful that you provided a "perfect" home for her, you ignored her needs and the perfect home was far from such. I blame YOU 100% for her death.

And finally;
Not once did you ask if I minded if you wrote all about my horse and her subsequent death in your column, I read about how she was put to sleep in a bloody rag of a newspaper."

LJ offered to take Nellie, to provide retirement loan home, when Nellies owner had no where else to put her due to a variety of circumstances changing fairly quickly (not her fault, these things happen particularly when you keep a horse into old age) One of the major reasons for the move IIRC was that she was and needed to be, in work, ridden regularly and it wasn't safe to do this from the yard her owner had access to. LJ promised to do that... and then never did.

AnApparitionQuipped · 14/11/2022 16:07

Here is the article I mentioned, where Liz goes on a 'date' with someone who has a girlfriend and is pissed off to find ... he has a girlfriend Confused

www.dailymail.co.uk/home/you/article-1267769/In-date-disaster.html

BronwenFrideswide · 14/11/2022 17:27

I remember her saying she was going to Exmoor and was going to rescue animals - that takes a fuck ton of money, particularly if they are horses, why does she think Charities that do the same are always asking for money?

Buy a huge house that needs work, rescue animals that need paying for, buy the most expensive of everything and then wonder why you go bankrupt?

Liz hasn't the sense she was born with and makes out her ridiculous spending and view of life is the fault of everyone else.

vera99 · 14/11/2022 17:35

Not being aware of her work until now there is something awfully compelling about reading about her car crash life at least superficially and at first glance. If she could write a best-selling novel/autobiography and get it turned into a film she could be set up for the rest of her life. A big double if though ...

AnApparitionQuipped · 14/11/2022 17:38

vera99 · 14/11/2022 17:35

Not being aware of her work until now there is something awfully compelling about reading about her car crash life at least superficially and at first glance. If she could write a best-selling novel/autobiography and get it turned into a film she could be set up for the rest of her life. A big double if though ...

She's published six books - I assume they account for some of the money she's had to spend over the years. I don't think her issue is with being able to earn a good living, it's with not being able to keep her spending within the limits of that income.

BronwenFrideswide · 14/11/2022 17:41

I think Liz has tried that vera99, didn't go well. Liz has written a couple of books about her life, they've not exactly hit the bestseller lists.

Some years ago Liz apparently wrote a screen play for a film that was going to be a mega hit was always referencing said screenplay in her columns and how this was the big thing that was going to make her a tidy sum of money and then all talk of it just stopped.

BronwenFrideswide · 14/11/2022 17:44

I believe the latest book was either self published or published by a very minor publishing house certainly not one of the big hitters anyway and it doesn't appear to have done particularly well judging by the reviews.

vera99 · 14/11/2022 17:46

I'm getting up to speed - paywalled so copied in full.

The toxic truth about my age-gap relationship – and why older women escape moral scrutiny
Be warned, Lady Kitty: a generation divide between couples can derail a marriage, writes Nirpal Dhaliwal following his 'scarring' experience
By
Nirpal Dhaliwal
31 July 2021 • 5:00am

I was 26 when I met my now ex-wife. She was far more successful than me, white and substantially older. Seven years later, we divorced following our much-publicised relationship.
This week, I found myself reflecting on our age gap after reading about the wedding of Lady Kitty Spencer, 30, to 62-year-old billionaire Michael Lewis. In marrying him, Princess Diana’s niece has chosen as her partner a man five years older than her father, Earl Spencer. The couple have given away little detail about their romance – so, naturally, there has been endless speculation about the age difference. It’s also in the news thanks to 63-year-old Sharon Stone’s rumoured romance with balaclava-clad rapper, RMR – aged 25.
My ex is the newspaper columnist Liz Jones who, during our time together, turned her one-sided take on our relationship into a lucrative industry, churning out thousands of articles. I still appear in her work now, despite not speaking to her in 12 years.
I thought a great deal about that relationship over lockdown – its disparities in age, race, power and income – while I finished writing a novel about a disintegrating marriage between an Indian man and his glamorous English wife.
Liz was earning more than 10 times my salary when we met. After airing our domestic linen in print, it had almost quadrupled by the time we parted ways.
In 2000, I was in my first job in journalism and living with my mum. I would turn up for work at a London radio station in baggy jeans, a hoodie and trainers. Looking like that, I met Liz for the first time in her chic Thameside office. Clad in Helmut Lang, with salon-perfect hair, she gave me an interview about her nomination for a media award.
A week later, I met her again at the ceremony. I had smartened up that day and her interest was more than obvious. So I took the initiative and emailed later, asking her to dinner. She was clearly in a “cougar” frame of mind, and I was happy to be her cub for what I thought would be a night or two.
After an awkward meal at her local Indian restaurant – I can’t say we hit it off – she offered to drive me to the station. I cheekily asked if she’d drive me home to the other side of London, and was surprised when she agreed. The conversation became friendlier; so much so that when she parked outside my mum’s house, our goodnight peck developed into something more intimate – something I definitely didn’t want my very traditional Indian mother to see. Liz hurriedly drove me back to her place.
Within three months, I was living in her stylish north London home. Two years later, we were married. But while all this sounds adventurous and exciting, I would like to ask: how would it seem if the sexes were reversed?
Nirpal described himself as being 'like a Prada handbag'
Nirpal described himself as being 'like a Prada handbag' CREDIT: John Lawrence
MeToo has rightly shone a light on the exploitation of women at the hands of powerful, predatory men. The movement, founded by the activist Tarana Burke, is also for racial justice, following her experiences of abuse as a black woman.
Twenty-one years ago, no one questioned a wealthy middle-aged white woman’s public relationship with a younger and poorer darker-skinned man. Given the lack of reaction to Sharon Stone’s latest affair, no one does today either. Women seem above the moral scrutiny applied to men in their sexual conduct.
A male public figure would face inquiry were he to parade his exotic young trophy so flagrantly. Instead, it is celebrated as a model of emancipation; of older women defying the patriarchy.
While in a position of power over me, Liz portrayed herself as a victim. Writing about her anorexia, anxieties and OCD-like behaviour towards everything from tidiness to pets, she was a woman apparently so painfully neurotic that no one thought to question her shabby flaunting of a brown and virile toyboy.
That she was the editor of one of Europe’s biggest-selling magazines, in charge of multimillion-pound budgets and asked to advise the prime minister on women’s issues, was all but ignored as she presented herself as a sort of kooky Helen Fielding character, who’d hopelessly lost herself to a young roué. The truth is, even with her well-documented issues, Liz was, and remains, the toughest woman I’ve ever encountered.
Older women are attracted to young partners for the same reasons older men are: their beauty, vigour, eagerness to please – and because they’re easy to control. The younger lover is a status symbol. “Like a Prada handbag” is how I once described myself, “with added clitoral stimulation.”
I came to live in a gilded Islington cage, lavished with unrequested gifts, and holidays as Liz spent some of the fortune she made from writing about me – mostly derisively – no doubt in the hope that I wouldn’t leave.
Her writing, of course, never gave any sense of my vulnerability. The working-class product of an immigrant home wracked by alcoholism, violence and insolvency, I was, in my 20s, always going to fall under the spell of a wealthy older woman who promised me a lifestyle and security that I’d never imagined for myself.
Friends did try to warn me that some people are drawn to the imbalance of relationships like ours, but Liz even spun this in her favour, claiming our marriage had been a sort of affirmative action programme. “I was so accommodating of him,” she told an interviewer last year, “because he was Indian… I thought: poor him. I need to help him. He’s less advantaged than I am.”
Nirpal Dhaliwal now
Nirpal Dhaliwal: 'It’s taken me years of therapy to heal the mistrust and confusion I developed' CREDIT: John Lawrence
Our marriage was doomed from our wedding day: an occasion I felt swindled into, having never proposed. She arranged it without my knowledge; I found out when I discovered a receipt for the country estate. Confronted with it, she declared she’d already told the world in her column – which I no longer read – and would look a fool. She then broke down in tears, robbing me of my anger as I comforted her and agreed.
She did the same thing on the day when I discovered she was 16 years older than me – not the 10 she had claimed. Having told me she was 36 on our first date, two years later, aged 28, I learned I was about to marry someone in her mid-40s. She again broke into hysterical tears, submerging my outrage with her distress.
We lasted five more years, her articles increasingly criticising my sulkiness, sexual withdrawal, slovenliness and infidelity. Eventually, I left, renouncing any entitlement to a share of the townhouse as well as any alimony in order to escape her overbearing shadow.
Having been depicted as little more than a gigolo, I forwent a small fortune that would have given me stability, and have lived a financially precarious life since. Naively, I had hoped she would stop pouring scorn on me in print, but she has continued to do so, banking cheque after cheque in the process.
Jokingly referred to as “cougars”, the intentions of older women towards their young prey are often toxic and can do great emotional harm. It’s taken me years of therapy to heal the mistrust and confusion I developed. It was a painful and scarring experience.
While not all age-gap relationships are so poisonous, it’s only right to subject both sexes to the same ethical scrutiny. Older women should be held as accountable as any ageing male who shows off his partner as a younger prize, thinking his money and power entitles him to it.

Lentilweaver · 14/11/2022 17:57

I have met Nirpal at a litfest. My immediate impressions were:
very full of himself
but also massive chip on shoulder and dreadfully insecure
eye for the ladies
constantly thinking "Is it cos I am brown?" ( I am also brown but fgs don't make everything about that)

His book is self-conscious bilge and honestly, Liz is a far better writer. Though maybe not a better person. Hard to tell with these kind of tabloid marriages.

Phuton · 14/11/2022 18:11

Nice of him to suggest he renounced claim to alimony. What a berk.

HappyAxolotl · 14/11/2022 18:21

I do feel a bit sorry for her as she clearly is not and never has been happy. She is lonely and latches on to the wrong men who show her any interest, she can't make or keep friends, she hates her body to the extent she has been anorexic all her adult life, had a double mastectomy for the sake of fashion and is obsessed with beauty treatments and products to an unhealthy degree.

I'm not a psych but have often wondered if her chronic overspending on clothes and appearance is to make her feel she has value, if she is the best dressed, the thinnest and "makes more effort" than others she feels she is better than others in some way.

BUT - she is a rich single woman who could have spent money and time on the best therapists to work on her issues and find other ways of finding happiness. She has no-doubt been told by now-ex-friends that they are dumping her because she uses them and their lives as column fodder, but she keeps doing it. She has been bankrupt once and pleaded poverty at other times, but refuses to pare back her lifestyle in any way and is back the next week bragging about how much her latest designer outfits cost. She obviously has money coming in from her work or someone bailing her out so again, could afford to see a professional financial advisor to help her invest some of it for the best, but instead she wastes fortunes and whines about it. No-one likes her but she isn't nice to people and doesn't learn that her behaviour drives others away.

vera99 · 14/11/2022 18:26

Having dipped into her oeuvre I've dipped quickly back out again I go down enough rabbit holes as is.

Lentilweaver · 14/11/2022 18:30

Phuton · 14/11/2022 18:11

Nice of him to suggest he renounced claim to alimony. What a berk.

Lol at him claiming to be a 'brown and virile toy boy.' Nope!

AnApparitionQuipped · 14/11/2022 18:36

Phuton · 14/11/2022 18:11

Nice of him to suggest he renounced claim to alimony. What a berk.

I think he and Liz are as bad as each other. It was the epitome of a toxic marriage and ending it was probably the only sensible decision Liz has taken in adult life.

elephantseal · 14/11/2022 18:36

What an absolute tool, cashing in her pension to improve a rented house!! Wtf was she thinking??

AnApparitionQuipped · 14/11/2022 18:40

I was thinking, if she's kept the old kitchen, she could in theory have hers taken out and reinstate the old one - then possibly she could sell the expensive one. Still a huge loss with paying for all the work and the kitchen having a lower resale value. If the house is being sold she could see if they'd do a 'kitchen units/appliances available by separate negotiation'.

vera99 · 14/11/2022 18:55

AnApparitionQuipped · 14/11/2022 18:40

I was thinking, if she's kept the old kitchen, she could in theory have hers taken out and reinstate the old one - then possibly she could sell the expensive one. Still a huge loss with paying for all the work and the kitchen having a lower resale value. If the house is being sold she could see if they'd do a 'kitchen units/appliances available by separate negotiation'.

My nephew paid 1k for a nearly new Bowens one worth 6k and he had to remove it. She would be lucky to get more than 3-4k I would have thought. The threat of removing it as it seems nice would be enough to probably get 5k off the buyer unless they were cashed up and wanted to trash it from the off.

AnApparitionQuipped · 14/11/2022 19:30

vera99 · 14/11/2022 18:55

My nephew paid 1k for a nearly new Bowens one worth 6k and he had to remove it. She would be lucky to get more than 3-4k I would have thought. The threat of removing it as it seems nice would be enough to probably get 5k off the buyer unless they were cashed up and wanted to trash it from the off.

I guess if I were buying a house at that price <hollow laugh 😃> I'd stump up 5k for a top of the range, tasteful kitchen - just to save the mess and hassle of getting one fitted myself.

From what Liz says of the parlous state of her finances, even 3k would be better than nothing.

I understand she can't get a mortgage easily due to bankruptcy and her age; but she must be on good pay from the Daily Mail. If I were her I would rent the cheapest flat I could get and save every penny until I could afford to buy a small flat or house in a cheap area outright - then she'd have that, it couldn't be taken from her, and if she continued to save she could sell it and buy a bigger one in due course.

Charlize43 · 14/11/2022 19:51

The more I read of her the more bonkers she sounds... however we all make our beds as they say.