Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Chat

Join the discussion and chat with other Mumsnetters about everyday life, relationships and parenting.

Original poster

British passport, Irish christening?

63 replies

Babydrama2022 · 30/10/2022 17:55

Baby is half Irish, half British. British passport. Currently living in England.

Baby is due to be christened in Ireland shortly, but we have concerns the father may at a later date refuse to return the Baby to British mother. Either refusing to fly home or flying back to Ireland at a later date.

Father under the impression the Irish christening overrules British citizenship and mother would have no help in getting Baby returned.
This sounds bonkers to me?

Any help?

OP posts:
FlakeySalt · 30/10/2022 17:56

Why are you taking the child to Ireland for a christening if you have any doubt about the father and relationship?

Shandyinthejarro · 30/10/2022 17:57

Absolutely bonkers and not true.

Marmite27 · 30/10/2022 17:57

A religious ceremony in no way over rides a passport / citizenship. That’s bonkers.

Foolsandtheirmoney · 30/10/2022 17:57

Tell the mother to cop on, why would you believe a baptism has anything at all to do with citizenship?

AppleKatie · 30/10/2022 17:58

The baptism does not confer citizenship ~ the fact the father is Irish does make the child entitled to an Irish passport though. They can hold both so it is possible the father would/has apply for one.

SettingPrecedents · 30/10/2022 17:59

Citizenship isn’t the important factor in parental child abduction, residency is. So even if he got the child an Irish passport, if the child lives in the UK and he retained him in Ireland, that would be against the law.

This charity is an excellent source of information about parental child abduction and how to prevent it www.reunite.org/prevention-of-abduction/

Original poster
Babydrama2022 · 30/10/2022 18:01

AppleKatie · 30/10/2022 17:58

The baptism does not confer citizenship ~ the fact the father is Irish does make the child entitled to an Irish passport though. They can hold both so it is possible the father would/has apply for one.

Can he do this without mothers permission? Google tells us he is able to apply for an Irish passport without his birth cert. Just a baptism certificate?

Guys, do try to be kind. The mother is so overwhelmed and upset, I'm just trying to help her through a difficult time. Its very volatile.

Thank you for help thus far

OP posts:
ny20005 · 30/10/2022 18:04

Is the father named on the birth cert ?
If he is, he could apply for a copy of the birth cert himself
Irish parent can apply for passport for their child without permission from the other parent

titchy · 30/10/2022 18:05

He can order another copy of the birth certificate for a few quid and use that to get the child an Irish passport. (Alternatively the mother could do this.)

Either way the baptism is meaningless given that the child is resident in the UK a court would order the child's return.

That said, why on earth would she give permission for the child to travel without her if she thinks there's an abduction risk. Either she goes as well or neither of them do.

Pepelepettigrew · 30/10/2022 18:09

I got my child an Irish passport last year ( legally, am Irish) and the process was utterly painful. You need consent of both parents for a start, and a witness to both signatures. I remember my friend having issues getting one as a teen as one parent was dead and it had to go through a solicitor etc etc. I wouldn’t worry about this. But I also wouldn’t send my baby on their own if I thought the dad wouldn’t bring them back.

Original poster
Babydrama2022 · 30/10/2022 18:10

titchy · 30/10/2022 18:05

He can order another copy of the birth certificate for a few quid and use that to get the child an Irish passport. (Alternatively the mother could do this.)

Either way the baptism is meaningless given that the child is resident in the UK a court would order the child's return.

That said, why on earth would she give permission for the child to travel without her if she thinks there's an abduction risk. Either she goes as well or neither of them do.

She is trying to prevent him taking the baby.

OP posts:
DownNative · 30/10/2022 18:15

Babydrama2022 · 30/10/2022 18:10

She is trying to prevent him taking the baby.

Show quote history

Sounds like the mother requires actual legal advantage as soon as possible, so should get on to that.

I wouldn't leave it, tbh.

DownNative · 30/10/2022 18:16

Advantage should say advice!

LIZS · 30/10/2022 18:16

If he is abusive she needs to get a solicitor involved asap. He could be prevented from taking the baby, or even having unsupervised access. Regardless of the baptism he could get another passport. Were they married?

DownNative · 30/10/2022 18:17

Mother could take control of the passport situation by applying for BOTH herself so she has them in her custody too.

Original poster
Babydrama2022 · 30/10/2022 18:18

Not married. Father arguably capable of parenting the child, but unable to maintain a relationship with mother and at risk of acting out of spite.

OP posts:
LIZS · 30/10/2022 18:20

On birth certificate?

titchy · 30/10/2022 18:21

She needs a solicitor then. Technically child doesn't actually need a passport at all to go to Ireland. If she has genuine grounds for believing child is at risk of abduction she could get a court order and make sure he only has supervised contact.

3peassuit · 30/10/2022 18:22

The baptism thing is bonkers. He could apply for an Irish passport with a copy of the birth certificate if he is down as the father. If there is risk of abduction, the mother should not give permission for the baby to travel. If he is abusive or threatening it would be better to contact the police.

sixtiesbaby88 · 30/10/2022 18:24

There is a difference between giving the father permission to take the child abroad, and a child being taken without permission. If the mother does not want the child to go the port authorities can be alerted and the father would then have abducted the child.
If permission is given then the process for returning the child is much more drawn out and it could take a fair amount of time to get the child returned through The Hague convention.
Be very careful and do some online research, even better contact a lawyer who specialises in this.

DownNative · 30/10/2022 18:25

Considering the condition of the relationship between the two parents, there's no requirement the christening takes place in the Republic of Ireland either.

Given the mother's concerns, it'd be advisable to have it where they're currently living in the UK. Any family in the ROI can travel over for it which is easily doable.

EducationDilemma · 30/10/2022 18:26

It's bollocks and both parents have to be present in the gardai station to apply for an Irish passport. And they're a Hague convention country, if he tries it on you ring Tusla and get the child returned safely, then it goes against him at the custody hearing.

EducationDilemma · 30/10/2022 18:27

3peassuit · 30/10/2022 18:22

The baptism thing is bonkers. He could apply for an Irish passport with a copy of the birth certificate if he is down as the father. If there is risk of abduction, the mother should not give permission for the baby to travel. If he is abusive or threatening it would be better to contact the police.

No he can't they don't work that way in Ireland.

Dox9 · 30/10/2022 18:28

My dc is baptised in Ireland and has an Irish passport. Baptism hasn't got anything to do with the passport application process. For a child's passport in Ireland you need witnessed signatures of both parents. But I wouldn't let my baby out of the country if I thought they wouldn't be returned.

RB68 · 30/10/2022 18:55

I think it would be best to apply for an order confirming residency of the child with the mother in the UK before anything goes much further. In terms of the christening I would find a way to delay this till residency is sorted