Expats's baby British passport

[PassportPolly]

I've posted before under a different name and got mixed responses.

We are a Northern Irish family living in Italy. We all have British and Irish passports, except our baby who was born here. The Irish passport was a total disaster and we still don't have it (long story) but she has a British passport.

We used her British passport to take her home to NI in July. At the end of August (around 20th) we brought her back to Italy on same passport without any issues.

We are flying to another EU country next week for a few days.
As this is within the 90 days, should we have any concerns about our baby leaving or re-entering Italy?

I need to reapply for baby's Irish passport so that will be a work in progress. So, what do we do when the 90 days is up? Do I really need to take her out of the EU, eg fly to the UK with her? Or is there a different arrangement if she is the child of residents? She is not yet resident as we are waiting for the Irish passport to commence that process.

I tried contacting the British embassy but got no word back.

Can someone please give me some advice about this. Thank you.

Just for reference: even though our baby was born in Italy she is not entitled to automatic Italian citizenship as neither parent is Italian.

honestly, I have no idea. Do you not have somewhere in your community where you have to register (like in France they have the mayor's office) where you could ask? Or contacts through your work?

Or is there a different arrangement if she is the child of residents? She is not yet resident as we are waiting for the Irish passport to commence that process.
I don't understand this. If you live in Italy, surely she should have residency in Italy?

I presume the Op means that the baby needs an EU passport in order to be allowed to live in Italy. Because Britain left the EU. This is why people have messed things up by stupidly voting for Brexit.

In any case, I would go to your local comune and ask them whether you can start the residency application now if the Irish application is problematic. You can have Irish citizenship without having a passport but I don't know what the process is for that .

Have a look here. There is a section which says (I think!) that non EU citizens have a right to stay if born to parents already resident, thanks to the Brexit agreement. I woud take this to your local comune and get residency asap. www.governo.it/sites/governo.it/files/Brexit_accordorecesso_20191223.pdf

Thanks everyone. We have someone sorting the residency out for us. This person has told us to wait for the Irish passport to start the process. My baby is entitled to the passport and I have no doubt she will get it, there were just a few issues with the passport office and the application expired.

I don't want to ask at the commune as they were already confused about whether Irish passport holders are the same as UK passport holders (They thought the Republic of Ireland had left the EU too and we had no right to be here on our Irish passports either 😳). I don't really trust what they say.

Don't have colleagues who have the dual nationality issue. Their situations don't apply to us and plus, I'm on maternity leave.

Thanks for the links, I will look them up.

Sorry, official residency in Italy has to be applied for. We have right to reside here but official residency is different. Not really sure how!
off to email husband

I know you don’t want to ask the commune but I think it’s your quickest route to sorting it.

We’re British in Switzerland but as we are resident our passports are never stamped. Was hers stamped?

If you really have to leave and return, where in Italy are you? Can you just drive over the Swiss border and back? Lugano is a great trip if that helps!

I would get on to the Irish foreign office and ask them for help. It’s the lack of Irish passport causing a problem when you travel. In terms of registration in Italy, does your baby have an Irish birth certificate?

Contact the EU's citizen's advice service. They can tell you exactly what you need to do as an EU citizen resident in another EU state. That is the reason they exist. They're very good.

europa.eu/youreurope/advice/index_en.htm

We are close to Lugano but when we drive we never get stopped. Do you mean for us to fly? Good idea

Thank you!!!

No, Italian. I have no doubt we will get the Irish passport, it just won’t be before the 90 days are up.

If it’s not stamped, is that a good thing?

No idea why I quoted myself here!

I think you should apply for residency anyway. It's quite straightforward and you don't really need anyone to do it. You can let them know about the Irish passport later. It's a pain that they don't really understand about Ireland in the comune but not really surprising. Just keep telling them about the Brexit withdrawal agreement and you should get there eventually. Having said that, I'm pretty sure no border guard would refuse entry to a baby with the right of abode. That would look VERY bad.

Is there a nationality on the certificate?

No nationality on the birth certificate. There is a stamp I the baby's passport, 22.08.22

Am i right in thinking we will have no problems flying on our mini break to another EU country next week? That's my first problem. Am also going to ask at the European Citizens Advice.

I'm in Italy and the residence permit things for post-Brexit haven't yet become available in the region I'm in.

I've been in and out of Italy 6 times in the past year on my BC ppt and though it's been stamped etc, nobody has given a second glance as to how many days I've been in or out. (Was also with my daughter on her BC ppt)

When I contacted the local questura (our immigration office is inside there, not the comune) I was told that this new residence thing for Brits won't be obligatory to carry/present etc as long as you were legally resident before Dec 20. It will just be a handy document to have. It won't stop your ppt being stamped etc but will if needed prove you can re-enter etc. As long as you can prove residence before Dec 2020, you can't be refused it. But you don't have to have it. And it doesn't yet exist. (it's a bit like the old Carta Europea if you had one of those- though you had to have one of those, couldn't be refused it, and it didn't expire. Except they had a 10 year expiry date on them.

All of which is a TL:DR to say I really doubt you'll have any issues with the baby travelling on the passport especially as you're within the dates. Presume the baby also has a codice fiscale/Carta sanitaria etc to prove residence?

Everybody has "residency" in Italy, it's a legal requirement that has nothing to do with nationality. You just go to the comune and fill a form in then someone comes to check you really live where you've declared you live. There's usually a Stato di Famiglia declaration done at the same time- you often need this for various financial things.

When you talk about someone helping you with "residency" do you mean that, or the post Brexit residency permesso doc that I mentioned above? If the latter, you can contact your local questura (the info is on the polizia di stato page) and see if they are issuing them yet. As I said, last year when a few colleagues and I were looking into all of this, they weren't being issued yet.

Thank you so much! To be honest, I get confused about a lot of the stuff. A lady through my company sorted out official residence for us, as my husband wants us to buy a house here but said we needed to have official residence. I had to supply paperwork, marriage certificate, passports, birth cert etc etc. It ended up being so complicated due to having born on the Isle of Ireland but also the United Kingdown at the same time. I had to explain a lot about Irish politics :-) Yes we all have the codice fiscale and tessera sanitaria and I've been living here since 2018. That's very useful thank you. I used to live in the Middle East and had a horrible experience when I wasn't allowed to leave the country with my baby who was born there, because of some residency paperwork. They literally took our luggage off the plane and wouldn't let us through. It was very upsetting and I now get so nervous about making sure everything is in order.

And no, we don't need the permesso because we have EU passports (well, everyone except the baby).

Oh yes, of course, you have the Irish ppts, sorry, missed that bit!
It's a bloody minefield but at least now most of these things can be done online rather than queue in a yard for hours hoping to get to the window in the 8 minute per week timeslot the office was open!
I can understand your fears after your previous experience but I think you'll be fine. Dangle beautiful baby at them and they won't notice the stamps.
Good luck with the rest!

I'm not surprised you're anxious after that experience but like @Geamhradh said, I can't see that happening here.

I'm in Italy and the residence permit things for post-Brexit haven't yet become available in the region I'm in.
Do you mean the Carta di soggiorno permanente- articolo 50? Because we have those.

It's a bloody minefield but at least now most of these things can be done online rather than queue in a yard for hours hoping to get to the window in the 8 minute per week timeslot the office was open!
I've suddenly come over all nostalgic for all the queueing we used to do. Haven't been in a really long queue for aaaages. Bloody online booking apps!

Are you travelling to another Schengen country? If so, this should apply:

www.gov.uk/visit-eu-switzerland-norway-iceland-liechtenstein/how-long-stay-without-visa

So within the 90 days you are fine anyway.

My experience this year is that I was only checked when entering and leaving the Schengen area, otherwise I've been able to travel freely.