Lasting power of Attorney.....if you're going to get one

[Relocatiorelocation]

Then please get both.

It is absolutely heartbreaking to see people trotting in who have given enough thought to their parents money to get an LPA for finance, but didn't care enough to get one for welfare. These people then expect to just be able to make decisions by reason of being next of kin.

In the last few months alone I've dealt with:

We're retiring to the coast, so Mum will have to change care homes and come with us

We'd like to bring Mum home for Christmas but the care home don't think it's a good idea

We'd like Mum to stay in bed as she's getting older and frailer, rather than being hoisted out of bed daily

We'd like Dad to be discouraged from sitting by that woman and calling her his wife, she's not his wife, our Mum has died

We'd like Mum to not attend the in house church services as she wasn't a church goer pre dementia.

All of these requests have been turned down as the family didn't have the LPA, and there was no advance directive. It causes upset and really strains relationships. It would have been an extra 30 minutes of admin to apply for dual LPA, so please do consider it.

Oh absolutely. No need to tell him at all. And it's good that he saw the need to do it and was proactive.

But hopefully others reading this will be able to bypass a solicitor and help their relative fill in the online form, if they realise it's easy.

Google doesn't do people any favors to be honest. Put in Lasting Power of Attorney, and you'll get a page full of results that take you straight to firms of solicitors. The government site is hidden in there and it's not obvious that it contains the forms to do it yourself.

We have both, but some of these examples are really odd

why should anyone want to stop someone attending church?

I actually thought the welfare one seemed pointless as doctors and care homes seem to do as they please anyway.

The government site is great, with plenty of guidance. You register, then you can fill in the forms in your own time - just save what you’ve done before logging out each time, it doesn’t all have to be done in one go.

Solicitors overcharging? Who’d have thought it.

why should anyone want to stop someone attending church?

My relative is strongly atheist. If she thought for one moment that a care home would make her attend a church service, she would definitely insist that I prevent them doing so in the event that she couldn't communicate that to them.

The OP didn't phrase it that the care home was "making them". She specifically said "We'd like".

We did our own - both Ps of A - no solicitor.
It’s quite straightforward, and on the H and W one you can add your own wishes re treatment if e.g. you develop dementia and can no longer speak for yourself. We have both made clear that we want no ‘striving to keep alive’ in such circumstances.

My Gran agreed to an LPA for her finances, but not her health. She, instead, put an end of life package in place with her GP, privately, and we just have to see what happens between now and then. Her dementia and Alzheimers are now too advanced to do a welfare LPA, but the healthcare teams have all taken into account the families thoughts, so I think it is quite team/area-specific

From personal experience with having neither for my late DF and both for my late DM, I would always advise both.
My DSis did my DMs online (no solicitor) after our experiences with my DF in care. Relatively straightforward, just need to read the information and questions thoroughly.
My DSis has also now done them for herself and her DH (she's mid-60s, fit and well). You can fill them in at any time/age, but they only become active when registered with the bank or organisation that need them, so can sit there for years if necessary until needed.

Well they’re expensive! Only those on really low incomes don’t pay. We couldn’t afford to do both

@Relocatiorelocation
Not getting one has actually helped in our case.
I have joint financial POA with my brother for my mum which is just about workable but unfortunately we see the world very differently especially when it comes to health. This came to a head during the pandemic as my brother doesn't believe covid exists.
Even without a POA my mums care home seeks families permission for appointments, vaccinations - all things health.
As my brother doesn't 'believe' in mainstream healthcare he won't consent for any meds, vaccinations, hospital treatment - this belief has become much more restricted over the past 5yrs or so. We've had financial POA for 7yrs.
I try to follow what my mum would want and judge things on how she did things in the past.
All health and care decisions are now taken through best interest meetings which involve all family members making a case, mums social worker, the care home manager and her gp. Seems to work well and comes to balanced conclusions. She also has an independent DOLs advocate who visits regularly to see how she's getting on.

It would be fine if you had a LPA that allows you to make decisions jointly and severally. It's only because that one is jointly only that it would be an issue. So there are ways around it but I appreciate that's no good if the donor has chosen jointly. Sorry you have to go through all the hassle of meetings and stuff.

@sandytooth unfortunately my mum thought the sun shone out of my brothers backside but knew I was the sensible one so she made everything joint. We have a further 2 siblings that aren't part of it.
To be fair he's only gone a bit weird stuff in the past few years and went full on conspiracy theorist during the pandemic. I think my mum would have made a different decision if she was writing it now.

wonky I understand. I actually asked mum to consider only applying for finance, because I knew from dad's final hospital experiences that I'd be unlikely to agree with a medic.

a friend whose poor mum was resuscitated in spite of a DNR told me not to worry about it as she reckons they do as they please anyway.

I'd like to have Advance Directive myself but haven't got to looking at how it's done and again, fear it will be ignored.

I'm a strong advocate for the system but I also recommend getting independent legal advice when you take them out, precising because a good legal advisor will go through the potential family issues and the different options around an LPA. eg if you nominate two people they need to be broadly in agreement on key areas. They also have a duty of care to the person named rather than to

That said, the price seems high - did it include will revisions? My parents took out reflective LPAs alongside making wills, then changed them to nominate two of their children when updating wills ten years later.
When DF died and DM had to update will she reviewed them again but each time the cost for the LPAs was teh cost of any process (ie if they changed requirements and had to submit forms) plus an increment for the extra advice. Nothing like £800.

They also have a duty of care to the person named rather than to

should be:

They also have a duty of care to the person named rather than to potential vested interests in the wider family.

After I read a case where a man had a very bad accident and the state took over all decisions, all money etc because he didn't have an lpa and his long term partner was completely ignored and removed from any decisions, DP and I did them - we were early 50's.

I am very cynical and whilst there will be people who will have bad intentions there are more people working for the state who will make unwanted and unjustified decisions when they don't know or don't care about a person or their family. I also would not put it past the state to put people in homes because they can then move them from hospital and they can afford to pay.

I'm so glad I started this thread, if it's just got one or two people thinking about the future and how to manage it then I'm pleased.

You are aiming at the wrong people. It's the person who takes out the LPA who decides. If they are not capable of deciding, then by definition they can't do a LPA.

If they decide not to do a health LPA, that is their decision. No need to infantilise them and blame the family.
My mum didn't want one, only a financial one. Quite possibly she thinks we would just rush her into a 'do not recusitate' order. Who knows. But it's her choice, not mine.

I gave my mum the example of if she had Dementia, would she still want treatment if she got cancer, would she still want her previous wishes to be respected (eg religion).
She didn't want to think about it, or didn't care, hard to say which. Either way, she knows but decided not to get one drawn up.

I'm a bit insulted actually, that you seem to think financial lpas are drawn up by grasping relatives. Rude

In 95% of families I've worked with the LPA has been instigated and driven forward by adult children, they've suggested it and done the leg work. Of course the parent has agreed, but they haven't usually stated the conversation.

Many, many families have told me they wished they'd fully understood the implications of not having both, and regretted their decision. Lots of people assume that being nok gives them more rights than it does.

Then there is something unusual about your job or the way you are coming into contact with these people you talk about. What's the context?

A Lpa HAS to be requested and completed by the adult with capacity to whom it applies. It can't be done by anyone else. If they are not capable of understanding it, they shouldn't qualify to get one. It's not a decision made by the family (although of course they have to agree to be named on it).

Are you blaming family for their elderly loved ones decisions around will writing or lack of as well, while you're at it? Anything else you'd like to blame them for?

I'm sure many families may have said that. But what decision are they regretting? The decision that wasn't theirs to make?? You have no evidence, I assume anyway (?) that the actual person who chose not to get a lpa for health (and it's on the same government website, so it would be hard to miss) has any regrets?

It's quite possible they didn't want their children deciding to drag them out of a carehome for Christmas Day, or relocate them halfway across the country, don't you think?

Then you work with families in care crisis or something then so a self selecting group. Because everyone I know who has an LPA, bar one, has initiated it themselves. They're been a LOT of publicity around then ever since they were introduced, and certainly people of my age were keen to get them in place. I've been a witness for a fair few friends who've done the forms.

Obviously those a couple or more decades older than me (so in their late 80s or 90s) might not have seen as much abbot them so need prompting. But it's still down to them to decide whether they want them.

We had LPA for MIL for financial only.

We were still consulted on her DNAR status and her EOL care.