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Original poster

Lucy Letby Court Case

1000 replies

Pebble21uk · 10/10/2022 16:51

Today has been the first day of the trial, which is expected to last for six months. One thread has already been pulled on the subject. Upon deletion MNHQ said that a thread about the case is fine but please read the rules around contempt of court before posting... these are copied and pasted here:
Publicly commenting on a court case:

You might be in contempt of court if you speak publicly or post on social media.
For example, you should not:
say whether you think a person is guilty or innocent
refer to someone’s previous convictions
name someone the judge has allowed to be anonymous, even if you did not know this
name victims, witnesses and offenders under 18
name sex crime victims
share any evidence or facts about a case that the judge has said cannot be made public

If any of the above take place then new threads will also be pulled. Let's please try and keep it going!

OP posts:
healme · 26/10/2022 15:08

Wednesdaywobbles · 25/10/2022 13:17

1:02pm
Dr Bohin is asked how much of an air embolus would be considered fatal to a child of Child A's size?
She says that 3-5ml of air per kilogram of body weight "could be fatal".
She explains Child A weighed 1.6kg [about 3.5lb].
"A teaspoon of air?" Nicholas Johnson KC, prosecuting, asks.
"Well, that is 5ml of air, so yes," replies Dr Bohin.

1:02pm
Mr Johnson: "What, in your opinion, killed [Child A]?"
Dr Bohin: "[Child A] was killed by an air embolus."

Be interesting to see what the defence do with this.

From a personal point of view this is really hitting home, I have twins, born 7 weeks early and one of my DD's weighed exactly the same as Child A - 1.6kg. They spent 3 weeks in NICU. I think about just how tiny she was then (her sister was a bit more robust and much stronger). My girls were born on the wednesday and I really suffered with hemorrhaging so I was on a maternity ward 2 floors under NICU. On the friday morning I dragged myself out of bed, got the lift up 2 floors and pressed the buzzer to be let in. As I walked through the door the receptionist said to a nurse "one of those twins has taken a turn for the worse in the night" I just froze and looked at her. She had no clue who I was (she should have known), as I walked into the nursery there was a nurse standing over my DD's incubator with a concerned look on her face. I honestly thought I was going to faint.

My DD's breathing had taken a turn for the worse in the night and sepsis was suspected. No one came to notify me, no one called my husband, even if it wasn't life threatening as her mother I had a right to know. In the end all was ok, she had a scan and a course of antibiotics.

For months and months I ran that same scenario through my head over and over again. In all honesty I should have complained but I didn't.

why should the receptionist have known who you are?

Wednesdaywobbles · 26/10/2022 15:50

Have you ever been in a NICU??

you cannot just walk in and out, the receptionist buzzes you in several times per day. There aren’t that many families there. So yes I do expect the receptionist to know a mother who has twins there who is dressed in PJ’s and dressing gown, otherwise surely they’d just let any fucker in 😡

theDudesmummy · 26/10/2022 15:57

Of course the receptionist should have known who she was!

monsteramunch · 26/10/2022 16:12

@healme

why should the receptionist have known who you are?

Not a very sensitive response...

But as you asked, in a NICU it's very odd for a receptionist not to recognise the parents of babies staying as it's a relatively small, contained and quiet area. They would see parents multiple times a day, have to let them in and out and would see them talking to staff and being at their babies' bedside.

I would be upset if a receptionist working there (assuming it wasn't there first day) didn't recognise me, as they would have to be almost actively avoiding engaging with parents in a NICU to not recognise who was who.

BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz · 26/10/2022 16:13

The statement read now (as agreed by both the Defense and Prosecution) says LL took photos of the child at the request of the parents, on the parents phone.

Yet this is not how this information was initially presented in opening arguments, and certainly not how the British media have presented it.

NNUJan · 26/10/2022 16:15

Mistakws are surprisingly few & far between. I worked for over 30 years on a very overstretched unit, where staff became more & more worn out, but staff are well trained & there are meticulous procedures in place to minimise human error.

Original poster
Pebble21uk · 26/10/2022 16:46

I'm getting confused by some of the reporting. Am I right in thinking that the Chester Standard Live feed has Dr Bohin as saying it was NOT suboptimal care for Child A to have been without fluids for 4 hours (Child A died)

But then says it IS suboptimal care for Child B to have been without fluids for a couple of hours (Child B survived)

That doesn't make much sense to me,

OP posts:
NNUJan · 26/10/2022 16:54

It's not ideal but it doesn't reflect on the care being given. Tiny babies can be overwhelmingly difficult when it comes to inserting lines, and it's important to let them rest after several attempts have been made. This is a challenge on all NNUs.

elepants · 26/10/2022 17:25

Pebble21uk · 26/10/2022 16:46

I'm getting confused by some of the reporting. Am I right in thinking that the Chester Standard Live feed has Dr Bohin as saying it was NOT suboptimal care for Child A to have been without fluids for 4 hours (Child A died)

But then says it IS suboptimal care for Child B to have been without fluids for a couple of hours (Child B survived)

That doesn't make much sense to me,

I think they were saying that the overall care was not suboptimal, but that this one aspect (going without fluids) was. But I agree some of the reporting is confusing. It'd be interesting to compare another journalist's live feed - I guess a lot of info is being thrown around and it must be a challenge to keep up all day.

HelensToenail · 26/10/2022 17:59

A different BBC journalist on Twitter is Andy Gill @MerseyHack

Rosalindisafuckingnightmare · 26/10/2022 19:55

2 NICU babies here.

Re the receptionist - agree they usually would recognise families. If they didn’t know who you were thought then they also didn’t know who you weren’t. So they didn’t know you weren’t the mum of the new twins and should have handled it all more sensitively.

Re being without fluids - as above, it’s not ideal but very conceivable this would happen and not be the result of anyone’s failure or fault. It’s really hard to get lines into tiny babies, sometimes even the best people don’t manage. Maybe the nurse practitioner and the registrar and the consultant have all had a go and not managed and baby needs a rest/the next person to try is doing something else. These things will happen sometimes no matter how good you are.

BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz · 26/10/2022 20:08

Comment from court:-
One of the nurses came in and said something along the lines of 'you've said your goodbyes, now do you want me to put him in here [a basket]?'

Headline of DM:-
Lucy Letby 'tried to take dying baby from parents as they said their goodbyes in the moments before he passed away'

I honestly don't know how they get away with it.

MrsFionaCharming · 26/10/2022 20:36

That’s terrible Bernadette.

Same as last week when they reported she took photos of the babies after they died, not mentioning it was by parental request, on the parents phone.

ineedastrongercoffee · 27/10/2022 14:41

looking at the transcripts so far today, I'd say it has been a good day for the defence in regards to Child C.

Happinessisabook · 27/10/2022 16:52

ineedastrongercoffee · 27/10/2022 14:41

looking at the transcripts so far today, I'd say it has been a good day for the defence in regards to Child C.

I would be inclined to agree.
I noticed there wasn't much mention of Letby today. Did it say anywhere what input she had with child C? It seems like the events that have been discussed so far were prior to her having contact with the child?

BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz · 27/10/2022 16:54

She wasn't on shift that day.

NNUJan · 27/10/2022 17:49

BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz I believe she was working when Baby C died, just not the nurse assigned to his care.

MrsFionaCharming · 27/10/2022 17:56

“She confirms she was the designated nurse for Child C on June 12. She also confirms Letby was not in the unit that day.”

So she wasn’t in on that specific date at least.

NNUJan · 27/10/2022 17:59

Why are people saying she wasn't on dury the night Baby C died? She defnitely was.

MrsFionaCharming · 27/10/2022 18:10

Sorry, the quote above wasn’t referring to when he died, but to the shift that’s been discussed in court today.

Lougle · 27/10/2022 18:15

MrsFionaCharming · 27/10/2022 17:56

“She confirms she was the designated nurse for Child C on June 12. She also confirms Letby was not in the unit that day.”

So she wasn’t in on that specific date at least.

Lucy Letby wasn't on duty on 12th June, which is the date that today's testimony related to (largely). They are moving on to the 14th, which is the date that child C died and Lucy Letby was on duty.

BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz · 27/10/2022 18:17

BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz · 27/10/2022 16:54

She wasn't on shift that day.

My comment wasn't in response to the day the baby died. It was in response to the query about where she was on the day today's events were discussed.

Prescottdanni123 · 27/10/2022 19:15

@healme

Even if the dressing gown hadn't been a massive giveaway that she was a mother, presumably the receptionist would have known that she was a mother/relative otherwise she would never have let her in without checking? And as she didn't know which babies were hers, it was a thoughtless thing to say.

idonotmind · 27/10/2022 19:20

Even if the dressing gown hadn't been a massive giveaway that she was a mother, presumably the receptionist would have known that she was a mother/relative otherwise she would never have let her in without checking? And as she didn't know which babies were hers, it was a thoughtless thing to say.

*

This. And let's face it, she's just given birth to premature twins and had a recent hemorrhage, so no doubt the look on her face would have given away the fact that she was a patient!

NNUJan · 27/10/2022 21:27

Oh, I see. I guess the defence is setting the scene of how vulnerable Baby C was.

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