Teaching assistants quitting schools for supermarkets because of 'joke wages'

[noblegiraffe]

Finally getting some mainstream press attention:

www.theguardian.com/education/2022/oct/09/teaching-assistants-quitting-schools-for-supermarkets-because-of-joke-wages

The article is very clear that schools cannot afford to pay higher wages for support staff. The DfE comment at the bottom says it is up to schools to improve support staff pay.

The education sector is falling apart. Teacher redundancies mean bigger class sizes. Fewer teaching assistants means zero in-class support unless your child has an EHCP. Recruitment issues mean that even if your child has an EHCP, they might not be able to hire anyone to support them.

The way provision for the most vulnerable students has been eroded over the last decade of school underfunding is devastating.

The grey army I know wouldn't accept being punched, kicked, spat and sworn at on a daily basis.
DD lasted a term and a half in a state primary as a TA. She certainly wasn't paid enough to be assaulted daily with no consequences for the child.

She had previously worked in a independent school with a child with additional needs which supported both the child and her.
It's a scandal that 'inclusion' is more divisive and neglectful than special school ever was.

As for subject leads, etc.

In our primary you don't get any pay increment for leading a subject. More over it's simply an expectation that every teacher, once out of their ECT years, leads a subject.

The crisis in teaching will never be resolved until someone sorts out the stranglehold the agencies have on the education system. But the schools are so dependent on agency staff, the education system would collapse if the government tried to intervene

Again, have no idea what you are talking about, this must be a very local issue. My school has two in-house cover supervisors (paid peanuts) for day-to-day cover, current teaching staff do emergency cover and when we need outside supply, we have known teachers who supply for us. Agency supply is quite far down the list. I've never heard of supply teaching assistants being used.

Someone who doesn't understand the role of a modern day TA though.

No planning and prep? No assessing?
Who do you think is trained in, plans, delivers, assesses and feedback to teachers/SENCo etc for all the interventions that take place?

The TA role changed years ago from just putting up displays and listening to readers. The pay didn't change with it though.

Wow-I don’t recognise that at all. Things are very different here-I’m in the South, but outside London. We don’t use agencies at all. TAs cover teacher absence. We can’t afford to use agency supply

I think one of the issues is that different schools do tend to have very different ways of doing things. Our TAs are not very helpful or hands on, they sit at the back of the classroom on their phones. I haven’t worked anywhere else where that is acceptable but if I said that on here people would probably claim it wouldn’t happen.

I have known schools use agency TAs, who are often teachers anyway.

Why are they allowed on their phones in a classroom?

As in, why don’t I stop them?

Because my life is easier that way, is the honest answer to that.

As in, why are phones allowed at all?

Phones for staff aren’t banned (secondary, if that makes a difference.)

It’s easier to let your staff look at their phones and do nothing, than it is to make them do their job in assisting you? Honestly I’d be reporting them for not working.

My DC have reported one particular TA using a phone in the classroom. Head wasn’t interested. Basically said that she at least turned up! Whatever happened to safeguarding?!

@FrenchFancie - why do you continue to work where you do? Genuine question. You known you’re being exploited. For the love of the children just doesn’t explain it. As I said upthread, if all the TAs across the country stopped working, or even stopped doing the above and beyond for a short time, the system would grind to a halt and changes would have to be made.

Official strike or not, until there is collective action and people stop putting up with such pathetic conditions, the government have won. Now would be an ideal time to stage a protest as there are so many retail outlets recruiting for Xmas staff, no one would be out of work for very long.

Official strike or not, until there is collective action and people stop putting up with such pathetic conditions, the government have won.

But there is collective action, TAs are quitting their jobs. Same in teaching. That’s why there is a crisis in education.

The government don’t care though. It really is past time parents started taking action. Unfortunately when they do kick off about things like ‘my kid is being taught by a TA’ or ‘my kid isn’t getting the support they are legally entitled to’ or ‘my kid hasn’t had a qualified maths teacher all year’ they kick off at the school and not the government, and often the school can do very little about it or they would have fixed the problem already.

I think TAs have a difficult issue with strikes. The system wouldnt collapse with a one or two day strike. Teachers would have very challenging days and some individual children with medical needs might have to stay home. But i have a disabled child who had no school place for a year, people didnt care to be honest. Least of all the government so Im not sure people would be that fussed by it.
A strike would onky have an impact if teachers and TAs did the same day as the school would close.

There's a huge variation of TAs on this thread.

The TAs that I know have no GCSEs or education. They don't lesson prep or plan. They don't teach or take classes. They don't do group learning. They've the job because it means they don't have to worry about childcare.

I'm sorry, but I wouldnt expect a role where no qualifications are required to be paid much at all!

BUT if the teaching assistant is required to have qualifications and do the above tasks then yes definitely - they need to be paid accordingly (and rightly so!)

So there needs to be grades of TA really.

I used to be a HLTA. It worked well in the school (years ago!). I loved my extra responsibility. I was paid £2 more an hour compared to the bog standard classroom assistant who was always on her phone

I think TAs need a GCSE Grade C or higher in Maths and English as a minimum. If they don't have these qualifications or equivalent then why should they get paid more?

Our TA can't even mark a Year 3 spelling test correctly.

A lot of the behavioural problems are the result of bad parenting and not SEN, and no one dares to admit it.

The majority of parents are getting their information from the internet, where they seek out like minded people to validate their own views and reject anything their own parents might teach them. I read a thread on here a few months ago where people were arguing that it was perfectly reasonable for children of 7 not to be toilet trained. Absolute nonsense, but if someone persuasive enough says it, and someone gullible enough believes it, it must be true. Sites like this are an echo chamber.

I agree @EYProvider , it takes a lot of hard work to bring up a well behaved child and some parents just can't be bothered
Everything is the schools fault to some
After catching up on this thread I would ask that parents check their child's school policy about staff phones being out in the classroom.
They shouldn't be

"Everything is the school's fault to some"

The consistent messaging from Government that schools will pick up the pieces or 'should teach' x,y,z,p and q (as well as acting as front line eyes and ears for social services help, the guardians of children's nutrition, universal childcare providers etc etc) does much to reinforce society's views in this regard.

I’ll risk a flaming here and admit under the cloak of anonymity that I don’t find a TA in the room helpful - the opposite, in fact.

I am not wishing to denigrate anyone personally. Most TAs are lovely people. But the educational impact they have in terms of achievement is dubious.

In my example above, if the class are working quietly - and I do prefer my classes to work in silence mostly - the TA whispering to a child is distracting. Similarly, the TA making suggestions turns into telling the child what to write (and in some cases writing it for them.)

I’ve never been convinced more TAs, more support staff, are the answer, except in EY and SEN schools where I do recognise their value. But in upper primary and secondary, I don’t.

Indeed @cantkeepawayforever

All the horror at the state of the SEN system and yet there were only 6000 responses to the green paper.

Anotherautumn

I think it depends on the range of needs that you have in your classroom.

None of the children I have taught in upper primary who have TA support would be capable of 'working mostly in silence' in the classroom. The child working on Ealy Years targets in Year 5 would not be able to access even tasks at their own level without support, due to the need for the task to be broken down and repeated and continually reinforced. The child with severe autism and ADHD, though able to access the tasks, needs direction and redirection every few seconds. The child with EBD needs support to regulate their emotions to allow others to remain safe, and to be removed to their safe place immediately is required. A class with all 3 of these simultaneously benefits hugely from the TA support they receive, as otherwise no teacher attention would be available for the rest of the class.

If you work somewhere where such needs are rare, for whatever reason, then I can see that your understanding of the TA role and value is different. My recent experience has been in upper KS2 in a very 'naice' school, and classes having all of the above every year are my routine experience.

I don’t think I’ve ever worked anywhere particularly low in deprivation terms: in any case I think most schools in the state system have a range of needs.

But realistically, if the teachers explanation and differentiation aren’t making a difference, then what tends to happen is the TA does the work for the child.

But realistically, if the teachers explanation and differentiation aren’t making a difference, then what tends to happen is the TA does the work for the child.

I agree that in the past this has happened when less qualified TAs were working as ‘general support’ for ‘weaker children’ - perhaps when I started teaching. In all the cases I refer to above - where the TA is essentially delivering an adapted curriculum and therapies for a child with significant learning needs; creating minute by minute adaptations for neurodiverse students; responding to extreme and dangerous behaviour - the learning tasks were very much not ‘done by the TA’.

Amazed that volunteers have been suggested...insulting to TAs and showing little respect to children who require extra support in order to access education.
I am a TA, who splits time between being a 1-1 and supporting children's learning in class.
I have a child who is disabled and required 1-1 support in primary and is now in special school after years of fighting for a place. I understand the value of quality TAs.
I'm in my 50s and have worked in many jobs from minimum wage retail and factory work to managing my own business. I have a degree, a level 3 NVQ and training in a variety of specialities necessary for my role.
Many schools are struggling massively at the moment and staff are stretched to breaking point. I am constantly amazed at just how my colleagues manage to make everything work, whilst juggling 100 different tasks and maintaining an air of calm control for the kids and their parents.
I get paid just under £10 an hour, I know many other jobs are similarly undervalued, often they are the jobs done by women.
It is wrong and it needs to change.

Only if the TA isn’t sufficiently trained and used correctly. A good TA deployed correctly doesn’t do the work for the pupil. DS’s 1:1 certainly doesn’t do the work for him.