Teaching assistants quitting schools for supermarkets because of 'joke wages'

[noblegiraffe]

Finally getting some mainstream press attention:

www.theguardian.com/education/2022/oct/09/teaching-assistants-quitting-schools-for-supermarkets-because-of-joke-wages

The article is very clear that schools cannot afford to pay higher wages for support staff. The DfE comment at the bottom says it is up to schools to improve support staff pay.

The education sector is falling apart. Teacher redundancies mean bigger class sizes. Fewer teaching assistants means zero in-class support unless your child has an EHCP. Recruitment issues mean that even if your child has an EHCP, they might not be able to hire anyone to support them.

The way provision for the most vulnerable students has been eroded over the last decade of school underfunding is devastating.

It is incredibly hard to get volunteers (I used to work for a charity) and they're often unreliable (fair enough when they're giving their time for free) so difficult to plan around / rely on.
Most schools can barely can people to turn up to the PTA meetings, what makes you think there will be loads of volunteers?

OP I agree that TA are well underpaid for what they are asked to do

Our volunteers only want to listen to individual readers, or sometimes take a story time session at lunchtime if they have a teaching background. No way would they deal with challenging behaviour or personal care and we would never expect them to.

My DF is a teacher of 25 years. She’s retiring soon.
She says that increasingly volunteers are specifying what they will and will not do.
For example they will not work on the ‘naughty’ table, as there’s too much messing around, or sit with little Johnny at snack time, as he throws his food.
Also in general, there are fewer volunteers as there were five years ago.
People are valuing their free time more and more!

£11.60 is a bloody good wage for an role that requires no formal qualifications.

Before anyone says "I'm a TA with a PGCE" or my LA only take on TAs with a degree - in my area (Rural) being a TA is the one job you can get with no training, experience or GCSEs.

Is this an unusual salary for TAs or the norm?

When I was a NQT - our TAs could barely help the Year 4s with their maths work...

£11.60 is more than my salary! I'm shocked 😲 (I no longer work in schools due disability)

But as has been reiterated several times in here in many areas and in many schools there IS a requirement for formal qualifications.

Someone with no qualifications wouldn't stand a chance at my school, nor those nearby. There is a minimum gcse requirement for the level 1 TAs here. For level 2-4 that requirement increases accordingly. Our level 4 TAs must have a level 4/HLTA qualification or equivalent to even be eligible to apply.

Some schools and areas it may be an unqualified role but this is, in my expert, not the case in lots of places now.

And you have to take into a account that the advertised pay is NOT what the TA gets paid due to the pro rata system.

£11.60 is a bloody good wage for an role that requires no formal qualifications.

I'm currently away. The 17y boy we are staying with earns almost that in his Saturday job clearing tables and serving on a till where the level of responsibility and training is a fraction of what your average TA has these days. His friend earns more working in a supermarket in the holidays.

No TA or HLTA I know earns that hourly rate! TA c. £10, HLTA 50p more. When the NMW goes up, LA grades go up by the same pennies. So next year TA level 3/4s may get £11 minimum. Disgusting.

Then they need to make the qualifications in the essential criteria for being a TA a national standard.

I just double checked a TA role at a school in Devon. Just says "desirable - further education"

And that's it. I will support a TA pay rise when there's a bare minimum in qualifications nationally 😊

TAs with degrees should be on a higher scale. TAs with GCSE in Maths and English as a minimum should be on a lower scale (but more than NMW!).

But all TAs ought to have a GCSE C or higher in Maths and English to justify a pay rise.

Would love the see stats to confirm how many TAs have achieved GCSE in these subjects.

I idea in the stats across the country but every single TA in my school has a minimum if GCSE English and Maths grade C and above (or equivalent.) we wouldn't even shortlist someone who didn't. Most have a levels or further Ed qualifications. Some have degree qualifications, some have qts and teaching qualifications. Almost all have TA specific qualifications, often NVQ style qualifications, or equivalent. All have prior experience of working with children, another requirement at our school.

I agree all TAs should have a minimum of English and Maths grade C or equivalent.

GCSEs in Maths and English at grade c or equivalent are generally the minimum requirement for a TA role- I think there may be some that have worked in school a long time that possibly don't have them, but for anyone applying in more recent times they will have qualifications. Those applying that hold degrees do not get a higher rate of pay. I have worked as a TA for 10 years, and my has has only increased from £9.05 to £9.98 per hour in all those years- so in real terms, my wage has decreased a lot!

This coming week I am expected to go with the Y6 class on residential which is leaving Monday morning and not returning until Friday evening for not a single penny extra! I only get paid for 24.5 hours of that.

I left my secondary TA job earlier in the year, after almost 8 years.

Expected to work with a whole host of SN and support others in all secondary subjects across years 7-11, exam access, invigilation, teaching small groups (and yes, I have a degree), managing behaviour, break and lunch duties. The list of things you have to do goes on and on.

The job had certain rewards, you'd feel like sometimes you could make a difference to the students and ultimately it was the lovely ones who kept me there so long. However, there were many, many days when I'd cheerfully have walked out and never looked back, if I hadn't needed the pay cheque. Suggesting volunteers would do the job is laughable!

I've got another job in education now, where they seem to value the knowledge and skills the job gave me (and pays considerably more). Unfortunately, as this thread demonstrates, TAs are often viewed erroneously as lowly and lacking intellect and qualifications, instead of as a valuable, knowledgeable and professional resource within schools (and the poor pay reflects that).

Forgot to add - 6 TAs left during the last school year from our department. Only one of those went on to a TA job in another school. They can't replace us as nobody suitable applies!

Yeah, if your pay had increased inline with inflation you'd be on around £12 an hour by now. It's disgusting that it hasn't.

But further education is beyond GCSE level. So when theyre saying that further education is just desirable, all that means is that you don't need A-levels, or other level 3 and above courses.

So why do it? For you and other TAs you are setting up the expectation of exploitation. Not long ago a school trip was a day trip to a museum, and lucky to get that.

As a parent I am far from happy about the pressure I am going to come under to send my ASC child to London under the care of a handful of teachers. If a trip to London is urgently needed for his education - and most of the population have to manage without, despite the resources sucked in and centred down there - I would take him myself. But I will be told how overprotective I am, all the others are going, do you often have trouble with anxiety, don’t you trust the staff (no, not to have eyes everywhere) and other such rot.

I work in a Secondary school not a Primary and our Head will not hire any applicant who has not passed English and Maths at Level 4 (C) or above. She personally wants above a 4 but she will not even shortlist anyone who doesn't have Maths/English GCSEs.

I am sure in Primary that they have more flexibility. Because they need to be deployed in the Core Subjects (in Secondary) the applicants need to be able to manage the GCSE curriculum. We are also expected to teach small groups so it's really mandatory we have a good command of these subjects.

Over the last 5 years many Apprentice TAs have shadowed me. I have really loved this aspect of my job and I always ask the Head if I can help train them up. It is mainly young women but several young men too. The students love having them in their classes and I have to say all of the Apprentices have been really good so far.

Like I said they have a range of good solid GCSEs and many other vocational qualifications (mainly medical as they are expected to administer medications in lunch and break and they have manual handling qualifications). Based on my own experience these apprentice TAs were qualified, hard working and engaged really well with the students.

Here is where the crux of the TA shortage in my school stems from I believe: It's in the willingness and assumption that you will take on unpaid duties as and when you are needed. Without complaint and even without days in leui.

All of my apprentices refused, just flat out refused to take on any unpaid responsibilities like open evenings, trips and PR events to advertise the school.

If its not part of their contract they wouldn't do it. Now from their point of view this makes total sense, they were on minimum wage and they were not going to go above and beyond. To be fair many also had bar/ waitressing jobs to top up their salary after school and on the weekend.

None of the apprentices are still at our school. And I think it's fair to extrapolate this across the country. As my generation-middle aged employees and older are leaving/ retiring the TA jobs are not been replaced and when they are the new TAs they maybe last 2 years maximum.

I am in still touch with a few of my old apprentices and many are in much better paid jobs like nursing, social work and management positions. Nursing sessions very popular. They used the time on the job to learn new skills, make connections/references and gain qualifications, paid for by the school and then they left.

They went on to either University or got other jobs. They used the job very much as a stepping stone. This is very much in contrast to us old timers who expect to retire being a TA or a HLTA after usually more than 16 years on the job.

Apologies for this post being so long winded but I think it's a generational divide. Only last week my Headteacher was complaining saying none of the new TAs who are young will do extra dinner duties nor will they just accept and nod when taking the really challenging students.

They won't turn up unpaid to meet the year 6 parents and students nor do a residential trip or less they are getting paid overtime. Good for them, they are not going to be used and then discarded.

I know the Teachers at our school don't have a good opinion of the new generation of TAs but I think it's because they won't just take the most challenging students off into a little room and then spend the next hour teaching them.

Also they are very clear about how they expect to be treated and spoken to. They will just walk. I think that's the difference.

Residential trips in Primary are not a new thing- they are a long established tradition. PGL has been going a long time- I went myself in Primary school in the 1980s. It's not as easy as saying I'm not doing it. It is on the surface voluntary and if there were circumstances where I couldn't go then someone else would take my place. However, the expectation is that the Y6 staff are the ones to staff the trip- school budgets are tight, and overtime is rare, and there's a longstanding history of staffing it voluntary. Asking for extra payment would not put you in a favourable light as the precedence has already been long set, and I know there are plenty other staff that would be willing to do it.

They didn’t happen in the 80s where I was. Nor in the early 90s. In fact at that time if you’d told adults in my working class northern region that they would be expected to send their primary kids off to London and their younger secondary kids overseas, they would have been horrified. At the time holidays were difficult for everyone and only the very rich went overseas.

do apologise i was an old timer style TA and your post was very informative as I’ve missed this new gen of apprentice TA

Don’t apologise I mean

I know the Teachers at our school don't have a good opinion of the new generation of TAs but I think it's because they won't just take the most challenging students off into a little room and then spend the next hour teaching them.
Why not? Why should anyone work outside of their contracted hours and roles?

That school sounds horrid @ParsleySageRosemary . Nothing like that was said to me when DS didn’t want to go on the Yr6 residential and we would never say that at the school where I work either.

We aren’t pressganged into staffing residentials either. It’s understood that family commitments, being a 1:1 or just not wanting to go on a residential are all valid reasons. Fortunately, we have a good mix of staff in a relatively small school who can and want to go. Teachers and TAs. No, we don’t get paid beyond our usual hours, but nor do the teachers. I love accompanying year groups on residentials when I can. It’s a privilege to see them grow and develop socially and try activities they haven’t tried before. We all take it very seriously, for anyone worried. Having children of our own we do understand how parents feel waving off that coach.

No, you’re wrong, I’m afraid. I come from exactly that background and area. Went to London for 4 days in Yr5 (1980) and for a Lake District activity holiday for a whole week in Yr6 (1981). Loved both! Didn’t want to go skiing in 2nd year of secondary (bog standard comp) but Dsis went to Germany.
Residentials aren’t a new thing at all.

I did a primary school (well, middle school) residential in around 1985. Not far away but with an overnight stay. Very average state middle school in the middle of a large council house area, in the north (South Yorkshire). In the equivalent of year 8 or 9, a couple of years later, we went to France for a day trip. In GCSE years we went to London for the day by coach. In my a level years, so 1990, I went to London overnight and then on to Amsterdam for a day trip before heading home. There were other optional trips, including some abroad ones in secondary, but I didn't do those. Dh went to a different secondary in same city and went to Germany on an exchange trip in what is now year 9, so in around 1986. In 1990 he also did two other abroad residential in lower sixth.

My sister went to (same) schools 9 years later and did more residential type trips than I did.

I taught from 1996 and used to do 3-4 night residential with year 7 upwards back then, albeit in the uk. Other trips were abroad though and the feeder primaries all did year 6 residential.

Residential and further afield school trips weren't that uncommon even in the 80s and 90s in my experience.