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Teaching assistants quitting schools for supermarkets because of 'joke wages'

698 replies

noblegiraffe · 09/10/2022 14:16

Finally getting some mainstream press attention:

www.theguardian.com/education/2022/oct/09/teaching-assistants-quitting-schools-for-supermarkets-because-of-joke-wages

The article is very clear that schools cannot afford to pay higher wages for support staff. The DfE comment at the bottom says it is up to schools to improve support staff pay.

The education sector is falling apart. Teacher redundancies mean bigger class sizes. Fewer teaching assistants means zero in-class support unless your child has an EHCP. Recruitment issues mean that even if your child has an EHCP, they might not be able to hire anyone to support them.

The way provision for the most vulnerable students has been eroded over the last decade of school underfunding is devastating.

OP posts:
TitaniasAss · 09/10/2022 20:00

The TAs in my school are fantastic. Unfortunately, they're treated like shit by our SLT even though they know the children so well and do everything they can for them.

AutumnalCosyness · 09/10/2022 20:02

It is completely devastating. Really feeling it at my kid's school.
Please stop voting tory people. Please.

JubileeTrifle · 09/10/2022 20:06

I worked HR for a trust. In their cost saving measures they would work out ways to shave literally minutes of TAs contracts to save money (to be fair across the trust there were a lot).
However they still expected them to work those hours for free and complained that they didn’t. Whilst SLT were being pushed up the ranks and given pay rises.

I know a long term TA who is quitting from my daughters primary. Her hours have been cut right down. Her main issue is that during covid the teachers all went home and it was support staff left running the school and looking after children in the main. She thought they would be thanked for this, but in September she had another cut.

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noblegiraffe · 09/10/2022 20:10

Dan Moynihan CEO of Harris Federation is paid £450,000 a year in his not-for-profit trust

Yep, absolute scandal, people have been complaining about it for years. The govt have sent him several stern letters asking him to justify it too. He's a bit of an outlier though. My MAT isn't anywhere on that list.

OP posts:
JubileeTrifle · 09/10/2022 20:11

For context pre-covid a TA advert might attract 50-100 applications. Now lucky to get 1-2.

blueswans · 09/10/2022 20:15

TA’s (the amazing ones) are arguably the most valuable asset to a school.
The way TA’s have supported my children is invaluable and I honestly don’t think they would be where they are academically, socially or emotionally without the TA’s that have been there for them.
TA’s are worth their weight in gold and should be paid appropriately.

toomuchlaundry · 09/10/2022 20:16

I know the salaries of some CEOs are outrageous but most MATS receive £millions income, have excess of 1,000 employees and many premises. In any other sector with similar numbers you wouldn’t get CEOs on low salaries.

Sherrystrull · 09/10/2022 20:17

JubileeTrifle · 09/10/2022 20:11

For context pre-covid a TA advert might attract 50-100 applications. Now lucky to get 1-2.

I agree.

Also, pre covid we may need 1:1 support for about 3 children in the school. We're now looking at about 5x that.

HalfLass · 09/10/2022 20:22

UWhatNow · 09/10/2022 14:32

In some ways I’m glad. TAs are routinely asked to take on the most challenging kids in the class with few qualifications, little training and shit pay.

It’s a national scandal that education is delivered to the most needy like this and the group that are largely exploited are women looking for term time work to fit in with families. If a class teacher needs an assistant they should be trained and paid at professional levels.

The pay is appalling for what TAs do and yes, it's a job which is historically considered 'women's' work and hence dreadfully undervalued and underpaid.

HalfLass · 09/10/2022 20:25

This. Education is in absolute crisis and that's exactly how the Tories want it. They do not and never have cared about the regular working people.

WhatsAVideo · 09/10/2022 20:29

A close friend is a TA, good at it, loves her job and is paid a pitiful 12K a year. Can’t move areas due to DCs and ExH, and I doubt she would get much more anywhere else.

XingMing · 09/10/2022 20:30

I am not sure that it's as political a divide as that. Parents value education or they don't. An ITT placement parent's evening showed me that MC parents turn up and ask questions; WC parents don't show up at all.

Michaelmonstera · 09/10/2022 20:33

toomuchlaundry · 09/10/2022 20:16

I know the salaries of some CEOs are outrageous but most MATS receive £millions income, have excess of 1,000 employees and many premises. In any other sector with similar numbers you wouldn’t get CEOs on low salaries.

They don’t provide quality education though. Academies have no accountability and there is no evidence that they provide better quality education than state schools. They are run as “not for profit” but usually have profit making links for senior leadership..One academy trust paid out £700,000 to a company owned by its chief executive. Another academy trust paid a company set up by one of its trustees £3,000 a day in consultancy fees. We, the tax payer, are funding this.

RockyOfTheRovers · 09/10/2022 20:36

XingMing · 09/10/2022 20:30

I am not sure that it's as political a divide as that. Parents value education or they don't. An ITT placement parent's evening showed me that MC parents turn up and ask questions; WC parents don't show up at all.

That’s not a fair way to judge. Middle class people are generally less likely to work evenings, more able to book leave if necessary, less likely to just get fired if they can’t make their shift. There are a hundred other reasons why people from lower income households may be less able to attend a meeting. They may be very motivated and interested in their child’s education, but if they can’t get there, they can’t get there.

noblegiraffe · 09/10/2022 20:37

Suggesting that school budgeting issues are down to MATs when school funding is below 2010 levels and schools have suffered 12 years of austerity isn't really getting to the nub of the problem though, is it?

OP posts:
ByeByeMr · 09/10/2022 20:45

BrendaHope · 09/10/2022 18:54

I worked as a TA for about 18 months. I personally left because I felt unsupported and disposable to the management, not because of the money. I had no training and was pretty much left to work it out for myself. I didn't receive any feedback or encouragement on how I was doing, and it knocked my confidence. On the contrary, the teachers seemed to be valued - as they should be.

This is exactly how I felt 😔

DeadbeatYoda · 09/10/2022 20:51

outtheshowernow · 09/10/2022 15:11

They won't get 12 weeks paid holiday a year in a supermarket

They don't. Any wage they have I s spread out to cover those holidays. TA's get paid for the hours they work ( plus very basic benefits that any employee gets from their employer).

CurlyhairedAssassin · 09/10/2022 20:59

If a child isn’t toilet trained, or violent, Mainstream schools are not the place to be

but you do realise that MS schools ARE where such children are being placed, surely? Parents of SEN children are often woefully ignorant of the reality of SEND provision and no doubt when all those (expensive) special schools were closed it came with it a fanfare of “inclusivity” and “equality” and all that nice-sounding but bollocks-in-practice stuff. So many switched-on parents of SEND kids wave their kid’s EHCP in school’s faces, they know what the law is, but unfortunately they just don’t realise the reality of life in MS for many SEND kids.

our SEND children deserve more. They deserve specialist provision and this doesn’t always mean mainstream. We need a government who want to give our SEND kids the best possible education, not one who sees them as a drain on resources and an unproductive member of society. Sometimes it DOES mean mainstream, with support, and sometimes it means a special school until they are 16 or even 18, and sometimes it means a phased, hybrid option where a child at a special school is able to attend PT at Mainstream for a while (with support from a 1-1 from their special school), until they are able to attend FT at their MS school with little suppose. Some kids with autism suit this latter model really well.

but our governments are failing EVERYBODY with the education system we have at the moment. The SEND children, the neurotypical high attaining children, the NT low-attaining children, the “average” children, the parents, the teachers and SLT (exacerbating the recruitment and retention crisis), the people who work in SEND at the local authority and provide the funding (from the lack of funds), the psychologists (who are pressured to diagnose/manage cases differently according to funding). It goes on. No-one’s a winner. But you know, if it means we all pay fewer taxes to just ignore all that, it’s all good. 🙄

specialist SEND education is expensive, however you look at it. We no longer live in a society where it’s acceptable to shut a SEND child in a room and feed them meals and that’s the extent of their care. Thank god. We no longer live in a society where a parent can afford to be a SAHP to keep their SEND child at home with them instead.

why isn’t someone DEALING with this crisis, FGS?! This TA issue is just the tip of the iceberg. I really fear that we are heading towards Romanian orphanage territory if we don’t do something about it.

Sherrystrull · 09/10/2022 21:06

CurlyhairedAssassin · 09/10/2022 20:59

If a child isn’t toilet trained, or violent, Mainstream schools are not the place to be

but you do realise that MS schools ARE where such children are being placed, surely? Parents of SEN children are often woefully ignorant of the reality of SEND provision and no doubt when all those (expensive) special schools were closed it came with it a fanfare of “inclusivity” and “equality” and all that nice-sounding but bollocks-in-practice stuff. So many switched-on parents of SEND kids wave their kid’s EHCP in school’s faces, they know what the law is, but unfortunately they just don’t realise the reality of life in MS for many SEND kids.

our SEND children deserve more. They deserve specialist provision and this doesn’t always mean mainstream. We need a government who want to give our SEND kids the best possible education, not one who sees them as a drain on resources and an unproductive member of society. Sometimes it DOES mean mainstream, with support, and sometimes it means a special school until they are 16 or even 18, and sometimes it means a phased, hybrid option where a child at a special school is able to attend PT at Mainstream for a while (with support from a 1-1 from their special school), until they are able to attend FT at their MS school with little suppose. Some kids with autism suit this latter model really well.

but our governments are failing EVERYBODY with the education system we have at the moment. The SEND children, the neurotypical high attaining children, the NT low-attaining children, the “average” children, the parents, the teachers and SLT (exacerbating the recruitment and retention crisis), the people who work in SEND at the local authority and provide the funding (from the lack of funds), the psychologists (who are pressured to diagnose/manage cases differently according to funding). It goes on. No-one’s a winner. But you know, if it means we all pay fewer taxes to just ignore all that, it’s all good. 🙄

specialist SEND education is expensive, however you look at it. We no longer live in a society where it’s acceptable to shut a SEND child in a room and feed them meals and that’s the extent of their care. Thank god. We no longer live in a society where a parent can afford to be a SAHP to keep their SEND child at home with them instead.

why isn’t someone DEALING with this crisis, FGS?! This TA issue is just the tip of the iceberg. I really fear that we are heading towards Romanian orphanage territory if we don’t do something about it.

Brilliant post and absolutely spot on. There is an SEND crisis and it's getting worse.

SirBlobby · 09/10/2022 21:08

It's shocking. I work with schools across the country (with vulnerable/send/cla kids) and when I speak to TAs and see the responsibility they have thrown at them for what £15000 per year FULL TIME, I'm absolutely shocked.

Our children who need support are struggling as schools can't retain or recruit staff. The schools understand why they can't but can't afford to rectify it either

XingMing · 09/10/2022 21:09

There is an SEND crisis, but it doesn't justify trashing the prospects and education of the majority either.

Myjobisanightmare · 09/10/2022 21:13

And a behaviour crisis i don’t want reader thinking for a second that if SEND kids disappear everything would be hunky dory as a lot behave impeccably and just need learning support but can’t as their TA is too busy dealing with kids who have no SEND but disrupt and ruin lessons every day

SirBlobby · 09/10/2022 21:22

@user1471462428 That's great for your school but what about schools with children who require 1:1 all day?

SirBlobby · 09/10/2022 21:29

What @Abraxan said. I'm shocked as to how many people don't understand what TAs really do!

Postapocalypticcowgirl · 09/10/2022 21:55

A few years ago, I taught a child with severe medical needs and disability- he needed 2 TAs to keep him safe in school. We had 3 TAs plus a few other members of staff trained to deal with his needs, so there was cover in case of staff absence and to ensure TAs got lunch breaks etc. It would have been impossible to manage without TAs- a teacher could not manage his medical needs and keep a class safe. These TAs, in my opinion, worked in a very high stress role, as unfortunately, this child could have died if medical emergencies were not responded to correctly- I couldn't have done it!

I've also taught students with physical disabilities which meant they needed help with toileting etc, again, this needed to be done on a 2:1 basis- and at secondary level we really needed same sex staff to do this for the dignity of the students. Recruiting TAs is difficult- recruiting male TAs is even harder! Some of these students also needed support navigating the school building- and again, this isn't really something a teacher could do, even though in some cases it's possible for the teacher to support students appropriately in lessons.

And there are also students with sensory disabilities, who again may need help accessing lessons, or navigating the school site etc.

All of these students were academically capable, by the way and suited to being in mainstream education with the right support.

Schools do have increasingly limited budgets (and don't forget the amount they get per pupil varies between LAs). Even with an ECHP, schools have to fund the first £6000 in support from existing budgets- but in some LAs, the funding they get per child is under £5000- creating a huge shortfall. And the LA funding will usually assume a TA will be paid minimum wage, or very slightly higher. For schools to offer more money to TAs, in these circumstances, they'd have to take it from a different pot- so other students would lose out in some way, because it's not like schools are rolling in spare cash.

Schools are facing big increases in bills this winter, as well as having to pay more for everything due to inflation. There isn't spare money in the budgets- this is why the education unions (and the NEU are campaigning on support staff pay as well) are saying any pay rises must be fully funded by the government.

Term time only work is only relevant to a certain subset of the population who have kids of primary school age- but secondary schools often start earlier than primary schools, and TAs may be asked to start work from e.g. 8.15 to attend staff briefings, or do handovers with parents/transport etc. So then, they may have to use breakfast clubs etc for their own children. If they are asked to support a child attending a club or extra curricular activity, they should be paid for this time, but again, if they're doing the job to work around school hours, it no longer works well for them.

Financially, it may make more sense to work full time, and either pay for holiday clubs, or split holiday childcare with a partner etc. And as more people work from home, it can be easier to have older children in the house whilst a parent works.

In the past, I think a lot of schools relied on people wanting the term time only, school hours work- but the TA role has often crept up, so it's not school hours only, and there's perhaps less need for term time only. If people can afford to work part time, there are other jobs which are less stressful!

I know a lot of secondary schools where it's very difficult to recruit TAs (and in FE as well)- often, the class teachers are asked to do more to support the students, but this doesn't work if the child has physical needs which affect them outside of class time too. And the increased workload for teachers can contribute to teachers burning out and changing jobs too.

Something in education (i.e. the funding) needs to change very fast, or I really think we'll see schools starting to crumble due to lack of staff.