WFH - availability at all times , yes or no.

[hattie43]

One of our team members works from home two days out of five and his normal hours are 9am - 5pm.

Would you expect him to be at his desk and available at all times or do you think WFH allows some flexibility. He has decided to take his young son swimming and the lesson is at 10am for an hour but travel to and fro means he is away from his desk about an hour and forty mins . He is not in a customer service role and doesn't have to be available to the public . He doesn't miss deadlines for anything. He makes the time up after 5pm so isn't reducing his work hours just amending the times .

A couple of people in the office are grumbling but I think it's perfectly reasonable and that the whole idea of WFH is to afford a work life balance .
How do other WFHomers deal with their working day . Do you literally not move from your desk or do you regig your hours a bit even to do a laundry load .

My boyfriend has an imaginary child for this purpose. He hates the work nights out/‘team bonding’ and the (unpaid) weekend overtime. Amazing how often it falls on the weekends he has his son... Or has to collect him from Scouts. Or take him to football. I think anyone who works in a company with the ‘childless are less important’ attitude should share custody of little Oliver. The great thing is since he’s imaginary, he can be at all of their houses at the same time. I imagine that if this was discovered it could be considered to be gross misconduct.

It depends on what people in the office are allowed to do, when I worked in an office I was allowed to nip out for different things as long as I wasn't doing something needed urgently as we were on flexitime so I could just make the hours up elsewhere, people did sometimes go off for an hour or two. If people in the office are welded to their desks though then this would not be ok for home workers

Putting a wash on or quickly emptying the dishwasher while WFH is completely different to taking your child for a swimming lesson in the middle of a working day. I can see why people in the office are grumbling because it would probably be unacceptable if they were to do the same and that's why it seems unfair. Where do employers draw the line? Would it be ok for me to pop out and have brunch with a friend, maybe do a bit of shopping? Everyone understands the need for flexibility around things like medical appointments, unforeseen situations or maybe to pick a poorly kid up from school. Otherwise you should mostly be working the same as if you were in the office.

I'd want to check this too, but I can think of reasonable explanations - the most likely is that his partner is also at home and is caring for the child but doesn't drive or has another younger child too and that's why he does the swimming lesson.

www.legal500.com/developments/thought-leadership/what-is-gross-misconduct-workplace-examples/
mumsnet loves an overreaction. Lie about your reasons for not doing unpaid work on your day off = as bad as dealing drugs in the workplace or stealing

Also worse than the culture of homophobia and bullying
Far worse than asking only childless employees to do unpaid work because the ones with kids couldn’t possibly give up their weekends or evenings

Weird priorities here.

It would be incredibly naive to think people don't do this kind of thing when WFH.

I tell my team if they are taking more than an hour's flexitime during the day they need to let me know, just from a H&S perspective. But I don't say no. I do it myself as well, it's great.

We have core hours where I work, which we are expected to be available during. 10:30-3:30. So if you want to go swimming 9-10:30, then work til 6:30pm, then you’re most welcome but otherwise, you’re expected to be around during those 6 hours for questions, meetings, all that fun jazz.

Personally, I think this is fair. I wouldn’t expect one of my team to dick off for over an hour in the middle of our working day when they get a reasonable amount of flexibility on a daily basis (we also offer hybrid working).

That’s priceless @Chattycathydoll !

I wfh and do do my team
i treat them as adults and they have the same flexibility I take for myself, so for me this isn’t an issue.

I know sometimes it’s needed to work later or on a weekend, if that’s happening then managing their own time and delivery isn’t a problem. It’s about what gets done, not the hours you’re sitting at a desk (regardless of where that desk is)

I do loads of stuff during the day, including two school runs sometimes. I keep meticulous records of my hours and ensure everything is covered.
This is one of the perks of working from home, I would suggest you talk to your company about making things more flexible for everyone.

I manage a remote team. This wouldn't bother me, especially if they are meeting performance requirements/targets, and the culture of the company isn't one for presenteeism. Wfh roles that offer flexibility are important, and as a mum of two young DC, it keeps me in work with much less stress!

It depends on needs of the service. But if it's a regular thing on his signature he can have his hours...so on that day working 9-7pm unavailable between 12-2pm - as an example. So hours he's being paid is still worked, it's adjusted for the flexibility.
Those grumbling should know this is policy and available for all dependent on role and service needs.

Conversely my old firm (City Law Firm) had quite a different approach. The lawyers seemed to be able to plan their day as they wanted, including doing school runs, popping out during the day to the gym etc,. The PAs on the other hand were expected to be at their desks during their usual work hours which obviously was not a problem, but were also expected to be on hand outside of those hours, so could expect calls before log on time in the morning or having to work late because, as one of the lawyers memorably said, 'well, it's only the time you'd be on the train and as you're not doing that so I don't see the problem'.

Thank god I've retired.

I WFH since the pandemic and it definitely has its advantages with DC/pets/keeping on top of housework/schoolwork/hobbies. I used to work full time in the office and do appreciate all the above. However as times gone on i do feel like people do expect you to be available all the time. We have work mobiles where we can be reached by chat/email/calls(obviously)... but new functions have been added suchas an instant video chat function(perhaps not new for others but new for us). I feel like there is no real start/end time to work. There is a competitive atmosphere and you are not looked at as being productive if you work normal office ours 8-5pm/9-6pm etc. I do also hate my job so perhaps what i have mentioned just now are perfectly acceptable for my role and if i didnt despise working in administration i could probably tolerate the incessant being contacted on multiple channels constantly.

In my industry/role it’s hard to recruit and retain. We are well compensated and in return expected to do long hours and outside 8-6 (global role). I have/would do something similar but am also likely to have my phone with me and responding to emails as well. I would totally let someone in my team do this if they were a good employee otherwise.

This idea of presenteeism is (which is was this is) doesn’t improve business outcomes - and that’s the difference between actions and actual performance. Someone could be in the office but spend a lot of time chatting over coffees or otherwise be very average. I’d take someone who wants flexibility any day of the week.

Obviously this is very role specific and has to work for the business.

If the same opportunity is available to all employees then it's reasonable for him to do. If it's not then it's not reasonable.

If a colleague (in or out the office) wanted to take the equivalent amount of time to go to yoga once a week. Would that be ok, and do they know it would be ok?

For me when I WFH I'm expected to be there and visible so a 10am swimming trip wouldn't be on.

If I have to go to an appointment during working hours but not during e.g. lunch then I also specify this to people so they know where I am and that I'll make up the time, rather than just going offline for a while.

It depends on the role. No one else is really reliant on me but I always say phone me if you need me. So I do whatever I want with my bosses blessing but if they need me they call me and I know I need to get cracking. I usually make sure my laptop is around though including taking it with me to things like swim lessons.

This is how I work too.

I start early than I need to. About 7 or half 7. Work till it's time to do the school run. Grab lunch at my desk and I Prepare it the night before so I can just grab it out the fridge or microwave it. Eat it at my desk and then do the school again and then work till I need to. They get more out of me this way and realise it so it's win win for everyone.

It's up to the employer to work out with him, unless it is impacting on other people's work. If he's working independently, then when and even if, he does his hours isn't an issue for other employees. But if he's not available when he should be, or expects other people to respond to his after-office-hours emails sent while he's making up his hours, then that's not ok.
Issues of fairness or 'not being right' aren't really coworkers concern, unless it affects them and their work directly

I tend to be quite “rigid” when it comes to WFH. No radio/tv on. Wouldn’t put a wash on - office phone diverted to home phone, don’t want to risk a spin cycle being heard on a phone call!

For me, WFH meant that I was blooming lucky. No rubbish 2 hour e/w commute. No one bothering me at my desk for inane chat.

WFH should mean that you mirror your in-office input/availability.

I think this does depend on the make up of the team and the impact on other staff, as well as what line managers approve.

I work with someone who royally takes the piss with this - she is never reliably contactable during working hours and does the bare minimum from what I can see on her WFH days. I would estimate she works an absolute maximum of 6 hours when it should be 7.5 per day.

Worst part of it is, she complains about the work ethic of another team member who is one of the hardest working and easily covering 8+ hours per day, alleging she isn't pulling her weight. I suspect it's all being done to cover her own incompetence. Unfortunately management are not bright enough to see through her and the hard worker is struggling because of it.

It's hard to get this balance right I think but if there's resentment building because of it, maybe expectations need to be reset and properly understood.

As long as he has his managers permission to flex his hours I don't see the issue. This kind of flexibility is long overdue in our society IMO.

The main issue isn't what they do but is it fair and equal in flexibility for the people who go into the office?
Can they pop out and make time up later?
If taking 2 hours out (which it will be by the time back logged on etc) then do they have formal 7pm finish that day?
I'd be pissed off if office staff had no flexibility