WFH - availability at all times , yes or no.

[hattie43]

One of our team members works from home two days out of five and his normal hours are 9am - 5pm.

Would you expect him to be at his desk and available at all times or do you think WFH allows some flexibility. He has decided to take his young son swimming and the lesson is at 10am for an hour but travel to and fro means he is away from his desk about an hour and forty mins . He is not in a customer service role and doesn't have to be available to the public . He doesn't miss deadlines for anything. He makes the time up after 5pm so isn't reducing his work hours just amending the times .

A couple of people in the office are grumbling but I think it's perfectly reasonable and that the whole idea of WFH is to afford a work life balance .
How do other WFHomers deal with their working day . Do you literally not move from your desk or do you regig your hours a bit even to do a laundry load .

In many jobs, a colleague does not need an answer on something that minute. If he was in a meeting for an hour plus, colleagues wouldn't be able to contact him then either. So I don't see the issue. It's one slot a week, that he makes up.

When I am online someone might send me a query and I often don't answer right away (unless it's urgent) as I am usually in the middle of doing something else. I'm not going to stop every 5 minutes to answer emails/messages.

My wfh role is super flexible. We have the odd meeting, that I always attend. But other than that I could work any time I wanted. I often clock up a few hours at the weekend and take it back in the week. But a lot of people are just weirdly stuck in the 9-5 mindset. Maybe they need the routine of it. I personally love the fact that if I want an afternoon out or even just don't feel like working, it's my choice.

We're encouraged to take regular breaks and use the flexibility. Take the time to hang your washing out that sort of thing is encouraged as part of work/life balance.

I don't believe what he's doing would be an issue, I'd agree it with one of my team, but I would expect it to be with my (management) agreement because that's a step outside the norm and a commitment,

It’s not fair if the whole team does not enjoy the same flexibility.

He’s taking the proverbial. Wfh means you’re simply working in a different location - everything else stays the same, and that includes hours. What is he doing with a young child at home anyway? If he has caring responsibilities he’s not working.

Putting on a washing while you’re waiting for the kettle to boil instead of talking to a colleague is fine - taking time out and doing social things is not fine.

I would also have concerns he was actually doing quite a bit of childcare while "WFH". How come he just does 90 mins with the DC, who has him before and after?

This would be my main concern. The hour lesson is like a lunch break. The 40 minutes either side is probably dealt with on a flexi basis. But if there’s a preschool child at home (and they must be young if swimming is in the work day) then who is doing childcare and why aren’t they doing the swimming lesson?

DH’s work would be fine with this. He does something similar every other week for a school club, skips lunch and if necessary makes the time up later. Some nights he’s still working at 10pm to fix problems or hit deadlines, so it’s hardly as though he’s slacking. I’m self employed so I just wouldn’t take an appointment at a time when I need to be doing something with DS.

Everyone’s work is different. I’m always surprised at how prescriptive some people are on these shorts of threads, as though the way their workplace does it is the only possible or correct way. It’s very strange.

My boyfriend has an imaginary child for this purpose. He hates the work nights out/‘team bonding’ and the (unpaid) weekend overtime. Amazing how often it falls on the weekends he has his son... Or has to collect him from Scouts. Or take him to football. I think anyone who works in a company with the ‘childless are less important’ attitude should share custody of little Oliver. The great thing is since he’s imaginary, he can be at all of their houses at the same time.

Totally role dependent. If a role has flexibility, you can take lunch at whatever time, etc, then it's fine. If the role requires someone to be present at all times (anyone within the team) then not so much.

I'm lucky that my current role has loads of flexibility, I choose start and end times, as long as I am sufficiently available for others to organise meeting times with me.

Today I am running out mid morning to drop my son off at sports training (school holidays where I am) and then will dash back out to collect him when it's finished. Times are marked in my calendar as being unavailable so anyone wanting to meet with me will just slot in a time around that. (Only availability is visible, not what the meetings are).

If his manager is fully aware, it works for him and agreed it then it is no one else business.

But disappearing from 9:30 - 11:30 would not work in my company. We collaborate a lot and meetings tend to mostly be in 1 hour increments. So, while it would be easy to selfishly say everyone else can slot around his times it just screws up everyone elses calendars for one persons non work related reason and with everyone else taking lunch at normal time it would be difficult for him too have meetings with anyone from 9am through to after lunch. I would also want to know who has the dc, is getting him ready and has him after.

I've been WFH for about ten years in a few different roles, with a mix of colleagues WFH and working out of different offices, plus client contact. Now that I'm an individual contributor rather than managing people, I'm pretty self-directed. However, I and my colleagues at all levels have "normal" start and end times - there's flexibility, but with people in different places including different time zones it's just easier to know when people will be around.

Personally, I would let my boss know if I were logging on late or leaving early (more than about half an hour). If I had something to do that took roughly an hour or less, I'd just use my lunch break even if it was an odd time, and change my status on teams and messenger to something like "back at 11.45 - call mobile if emergency".

If I knew I would be gone significantly more than an hour, and especially if it was a recurring commitment, I would let my boss know and get his approval, which he would give unless there was some conflict I wasn't yet aware of. And for a recurring hour plus appointment, I'd let my team members know as well. That way everyone knows what's going on and no one has to gossip. (It's not that anyone would really be inconvenienced, or that my boss would be terribly upset if I didn't ask - I just don't want to waste anyone's time looking for me or asking about me when I've got routine time away and can easily communicate that).

Of course, the same rules and expectations should apply to everyone in the same role/group - if I get to take two hours once a week, my colleagues also should be allowed to do so if they need to.

Just adding - I'd also add the recurring appointment to my calendar, which everyone can see, with something like "OOTO". That way no one schedules me into a meeting I can't attend.

He lies to his whole workplace about an imaginary child? So not only does he find dishonesty easy, he uses it as a way to avoid having an adult discussion, and also thinks this is okay to admit to. lots of qualities you would want in a bf. 🤔

My boyfriend has an imaginary child for this purpose. He hates the work nights out/‘team bonding’ and the (unpaid) weekend overtime. Amazing how often it falls on the weekends he has his son... Or has to collect him from Scouts. Or take him to football. I think anyone who works in a company with the ‘childless are less important’ attitude should share custody of little Oliver. The great thing is since he’s imaginary, he can be at all of their houses at the same time

What a weirdo

Depends on the policy. We have WFH and flexible working (earliest start 8am, latest finish 6pm, min 6 / max 9 hours working day), but core hours of 10-12 and 2-4 are meant to be worked by everyone to ensure meetings can take place. You can take an extended lunch break occasionally eg 12-2 and make up the time. And managers will allow the odd later start or earlier finish at their discretion, as they did when we worked in the office full time eg if your child has a sports day and you want to work 12-6 that day and make the hours up the rest of the week.

But your colleague's arrangement - starting at 9, stopping again at 9:40, being unavailable until 11:20, every week - would not get approval. It's outside of the policy.

If output is ok & it doesn't negatively impact other people's ability to work i have no issue with it although I would want to understand where child is the rest of the day because they are presumably pre-school age & I'm very anti wfh/no childcare unless it's sickness related
Presenteeism is overrated whether physically in the office or wfh.
If employees aren't performing then it's a management issue and should be dealt with appropriate supervisory measures.

It is a sledgehammer approach to say that because call centre/assembly line workers can't have flexibility no-one should, it's not fair....(although their conditions/options should also be assessed)
For the majority if they are treated well they will be more loyal to organisation.

Not acceptable. Total piss take. Does he not need to be available when others are working? Not in the evening.

Well, if you've read the 3 pages of comments before posting this, you'd realise that no, not everyone needs to be working at the same time as other employees. It depends on your job.

As said on this page
Everyone’s work is different. I’m always surprised at how prescriptive some people are on these shorts of threads, as though the way their workplace does it is the only possible or correct way. It’s very strange.

It’s not fair if the whole team does not enjoy the same flexibility.

Though there is nothing in the OP's posts to suggest this is the case. Presumably - if doing the same role - colleagues could also choose to start earlier or finish later and have a bigger gap in the day? They have chosen not to, and are moaning about the fact a colleague has made a different choice.

He’s taking the proverbial. Wfh means you’re simply working in a different location - everything else stays the same, and that includes hours

But potentially his hours were flexible all the time anyway ? I know mine are. As long as you do your hours over the week, no-one minds when you do them. Some people like to start early and finish early, and some work late and some have lunch hours and some not. Different employers have different rules about flexible working - as has been demonstrated on this thread. I for one can work the hours I want to,, as long as there is a general pattern of being available during 'typical' working hours, but as @Fuwari said at the top of P4, I won't be able to pick up a call or e-mail that often as I will often be in a meeting, or on another call, or focusing on something I need to finish.

My employer doesn't have the money to offer reasonable pay rises, so it has looked at how it can improve T&C to improve staff retention, and one of the things they brought in about 18 months ago was exactly this - the "permission" to work your hours flexibly (as long as it fits with covering 'business need'). It is really liberating.

Whilst I think one of the perks of wfh is greater flexibility I think a regular commitment like this in the morning is taking the piss.
it somehow feels different from making use of flexi by taking a long lunch break or finishing earlier could equally be done by people in the office.
it wouldn’t work in my job as we have lots of meetings. It’s not quite the same as taking 30 minutes to do the school run & then making the time up. It’s almost 2 hours.
am just thinking if I wanted my hair done for example I might as a 2 off book a long lunch or am early finish but I wouldn’t book it at 10 for 2 hours

My employer has never cared what hours we worked, even when we were in the office. People would leave at random times for exercise or to
do the school run and then return to the office. As long as the total hours are met and deadlines aren’t missed, people are treated like adults who can manage their own schedules. WFH is no different.

This kind of attitude is really important in places where occasional deadlines or crises might require employees to work late or on weekends. If the employer wants flexibility from the employees, it needs to be reciprocated or people don’t feel respected and leave.

This, but depends on the role. I'm contracted to work 40 hours a week. No one cares about the exact scheduling of those hours, as long as I attend booked meetings, meet deadlines, respond to mails and do at least 40 hours over the week. I sometimes have to do out of hours work anyway (IT) and we're global, so there's always a chance of early calls with AsiaPac or late calls with the US. People in the office often go to the gym mid-morning or mid-afternoon because they're quite times than lunch time. Some take long lunchbreaks to fit things in. If people in the office can't do this and people WFH can, that would be unfair, though.

None of us is ever always available, even in the office. Even if I want to speak to my manager, I might have to wait because he's in a 1:1 with one of my colleagues or his own manager, and it's not at all unlikely that we get back-to-back meetings some days. So as long as it's marked in his calendar and he's doing everything expected, I'd leave him to it.

If his boss is ok with it, I see no issue, it's one of the expected advantages of WFH.

I sometimes take time away from work, to drive into town, do some work around the house etc, but I do a lot of work out of hours in the evening or the weekend.

My role isn't about a bum on a seat from 9-5, it's getting the job done so my boss doesn't really care when I do it.

This... sometimes I have to do whatever it takes to get the job done, which means working late/weekends etc. So I expect some flexibility in return.

I encourage it. His workplace is content to extort its workers. I’m a single mother, so I only get every other weekend free. His workplace treats those with kids as human, and everyone else is expected to cover eg only those with kids are allowed time off around Christmas. I’m not happy with him being coerced into working random Saturdays when we have plans so yes if a fake kid means he gets treated fairly, I’m all for it. As for adult conversations, his coworkers think homophobic jokes are the pinnacle of humour so I doubt there’s going to be much said except piss-taking if he asks to be treated equally. Not all industries treat their employees well

Depends on the policy. I WFH 3 days a week, we don't have flexible hours but no one would bat an eyelid if I had say a dentist appointment during the day and then made up the hours in the evening. However, I would look to fit something like that around meetings, deadlines etc. A regular swimming lesson seems like quite a different thing. Especially if he is turning down meetings during the day to accommodate it.

I would say once a week it is fine for general work day requests, but if a meeting is booked in advance, I would expect that to take priority over swimming (e.g. as a manager, I would expect him to attend a meeting and not ask for it to be moved and/or not turn up because of swimming).

And this is why so many employers are looking to bring people back into the office because they’re just not as productive working from home.

The reality is that an awful lot of people really aren’t as productive when working from home, precisely because they think WFH equals work whenever they want regardless of contracted hours. FWIW I wfh but my job is one which absolutely requires me to be at my desk during my contracted hours.

But ultimately, if you wouldn’t leave the office for a couple of hours during the working day, then you shouldn’t be doing so from home either, because home is essentially the office during your contracted hours.

Obviously if you work flexi time and have core hours that is different, and would be different if you were in the office as well. But contracted hours are just that, contracted hours.