ADHD/Autism behaviour

[mids2019]

We are acquaintances with a family whose eldest child (around 12 years) has been diagnosed with ADHD/autism.

The child's behaviour can be quite impulsive and is occasionally prone to emotional outbursts. The child is very forward with adults (a little disrespectfuly) and his behaviour in at least our experience can be quite poor.

The problem is that I do not think it is our place to comment on the child's behaviour and certainly not to verbally chastise him. We therefore really don't know how to relate to the child and worry about saying the wrong thing to the parents? I am sure the family is stressed an do we do not want to add to to he stress by commenting on the he child's behaviour especially as it is the result of an underlying health condition but sometimes it's a challenge to remain silent.

Is there a correct way forward with this?

With the crisps example, IMO it's fine to say something like you would to a neurotypical child, ie say "please can I have those back" / "sorry, those are X's". My child is younger and awaiting an ASD diagnosis, my personal viewpoint is that he needs to know where the boundaries are, and they need to be clear and firm. I've had to make it quite clear to his grandparents that they're doing him no favours by ignoring behaviour that isn't acceptable due to his needs, not because I'm mean, but if no-one explains to him that it's not okay to do certain things, how does he know not to not do it?

Maybe talk to his parents and just explain that you didn't know how to handle it, what would they like you to do or say in future if something like that happens again?

Another thing to maybe say is 'Can I do anything?' quietly to the mum if something happens when you're there. She might say watch the hob, leave, look after other child etc. Or she may say no, and she's looking after it. That's that. She might like to vent at another stage and she likely just wants to be heard.

The thing is hollyivysaurus for some children you saying that could escalate a situation that just isn't worth it for the crisps. Following the mother's lead will let you know if needed or not.

I am sure the family is stressed an do we do not want to add to to he stress by commenting on the he child's behaviour especially as it is the result of an underlying health condition but sometimes it's a challenge to remain silent.
Is there a correct way forward with this?

Mmm - well actually, as you appear to be struggling with your own impulses to make socially inappropriate responses, perhaps you could empathise a bit more with the child and his family?

You sound like you want to help. You could do research to find out more about autism and ADHD. This would help you to understand that this isn’t about bad behaviour.

My daughter has ASD. Sometimes behaviours which seem odd or disrespectful to others can just become normality for the family with ASD children.

Depending on the child's symptoms the parents may have to cope with extremely challenging behaviours on a regular basis. Which can sometimes lead to a 'pick your battles' kind of coping mechanism. That said I do remind my DD of her manners and on the 'crisps' occasion would have addressed her behaviour.

I would try to take these sorts of incidents on the chin and let the parents handle it. You never know they may have just felt embarrassed and addressed it once you left

I agree. Also, parents cant offer perfection all the time. they are with their children so much and without colleagues to back them up or give them a break. Its very different.

A child snatches a packet of biscuits.

You could say - no you only take one biscuit, not the entire packet (in a nice way).

The parents could either get very offended or not have an issue with it.

I don’t think the SN is even relevant.

Some parents will always get defensive with their children/think they can’t do anything wrong.

Therefore, I would try and avoid saying anything to a child, regardless of SN.

@TakeMeToBeach

Good advice. I am sure ADHD is not simply about behaviour. I think an issue is to what extent can ADHD display itself as 'poor behaviour'.

As I said there had been some good advice on this thread. More knowledge helps everyone I think.

@WhenInRome

Thank you for that. I think I can see the 'battle picking' in the family dynamic.

If you're spending a lot of time with the family, I think it's OK to gently and kindly say "Please don't snatch, it's not polite." When the child snatches, and then follow up with some prise when you catch the child doing something positive (even if that's something you'd expect most DC to do anyway, such as hang up their coat). Parents with DC who have SN are also learning as they they go along. There where times when other people handled situations with DS1 better than I could, and I was really grateful.

I would ignore and carry on.
I would also try not to judge the child or parents.

DS is autistic but snatching crisps isn’t something he would do, but if it was I (his mother) would not pull him up for it in a social situation for a couple of reasons - it would be humiliating for him, plus under those circumstances he’d already have high stress levels and be unable to take it in, and it would escalate to far more difficult behaviour.

TBH ds’s impulsive behaviour is far more inappropriate than snatching crisps, and he’s 17. You’d have a field day judging your socks off. And I’d have a field day judging every single anyone who happens to suggest it’s poor parenting

If you like the parents and want to be valued friends to them then ignore it.

Anyone (and there are many of them) who have tried to improve my son’s behaviour have left us all feeling judged and not wanting to spend time with them at all.

@SecretMoomin snap. We are left with a tight group of true friends.

OP just to explain in case it helps. I don’t think it’s helpful to think of it as poor behaviour at all.

Just for example - a child with ASD may not understand snatching is rude. They may not understand food of an adult other than their parents may not be shared with them. This is because of a lack of understanding of social rules.

A child with ADHD and ASD may have been taught the rules around snatching food many times. Either they don’t understand so can’t retain the information. Or they can’t generalise rules to different situations eg “you told me not to snatch out shopping. You never said don’t snatch anywhere”. Or they have learnt the rules by rote but the ADHD makes impulse control too difficult for them to stop themselves snatching in the moment.

@MissHavershamReturns

Thanks that does make sense.

I think impulse control maybe a factor.

I have to consider what to tell my children (same age) about ADHD and how they should consider the child's behaviour.

I do see the point about not referring to 'poor behaviour' and their maybe a better way to frame this.

The child in question finds school difficult where by its very nature there are a whole series of rules that have to obeyed or there is disciplinary actio (e.g. detentions). It must feel like the child feels like he is being punished for a medical condition.

It could be helpful to think that an autistic child might be emotionally a half to a third younger than their chronological age. Their verbal understanding might be much less or more. A large proportion of autistic people struggle with sensory problems that can be incredibly distressing. A seam can feel as overwhelming as ants biting, a grating extractor fan like a newborns cry to its mother.

SO pretend you have a six year old with poor language skills, ants in their pants and a dog howling in their ear who’s life has NEVER been without these difficulties who is trying to learn manners and social norms.

How does his behaviour look now?

What would you do to help your child in this circumstance?

You have taken me back to the days when DS2 was young. He didn't so much snatch food as calmly just help himself (perhaps because no ADHD diagnosis): to chips from complete strangers' McDonalds meals, his brothers' sausages from their dinner plates and, on one occasion, another complete stranger's ice lolly. The lolly was handed back with an apology. Obviously, the chips/fries were another matter. We learnt to watch him closely in McD's & put him between DBs, or DH & I. His brothers learned to guard their food closely! He did eventually learn not to take food from others. Thinking back to how friends were helpful: for me those who took it in good humour were invaluable. A comment like, "I see (name) has good taste in crisps" - if you know them very well. Some excellent advice from PPs: reading up on ASD & ADHD, not being judgemental and being supportive of the Mum in particular, as she is the one bearing most of the load of parenting a neurodiverse child. Like the PP who said about her friends, I forged strong friendships with those who were accepting of DS2. They were my lifeline back then and still lovely to have around me now. We have many scenarios to look back on & laugh (eg. DS2 had a penchant for bathing in garden ponds).

Decent parents of autistic children ( myself included) pick their battles!
We are tired stressed and sometimes overwhelmed but I wouldn't allow my son to snatch from people's hands ect ect.
I'm sure the mum is fighting bigger battles or she would have corrected his behaviour,be kind and don't expect your kind of normal 🤷‍♀️

Good point about emotional age and I think I recognise this. One thing that strikes me is that the child (he) is approaching adolescence with all.the changes and pressures that entails. The boy I think tends to make friendships more easily with girls and as our children grow older that may be a challenging process as it appears the girls are tending to want to stay in girl groups and he feels excluded.

The boy unfortunately has a low IQ and I think in general school is difficult and so he is looking to form social networks out of school but he does seem to get very attached to other children (and disappointed when the friendships aren't on his terms)

Op I have sibling relationships for my dc so I have to navigate explanations to them daily.

If parents and the child know about the diagnosis then it’s easy to share with your dc. Lots of nice books eg at the library which explain neurodiversity for kids.

I say to my neurotypical dc, Sam (not ds’s name) finds this really tricky, so please don’t say about anything about it. I also explain why the things happen.

So he has learning disabilities as well?

@5zeds

Good question. He certainly is not an academic child and doesn't like reading or museums for instance. I don't know if this necessarily means he has a learning disability as such but I do think he will find secondary school a challenge. The father is similar in that he is not academic so that may be a factor.

🤣liking reading and museums doesn’t mean you have an average plus IQ. You are being ridiculous

That's a fucking awesome description.