To ask whether those who support a Junior Doctors’ strike would support a strike by teachers?

[Pottedpalm]

i would support a strike by Junior Doctors, though the idea is very frightening as a current patient in the healthcare system.
However, I wonder whether the massive support expressed for the Junior Doctors would be extended to teachers, who are also considering striking.

Teaching is shifting to a part-time, short-term workforce in primary, in my experience.
Along with the all the other points made here about SEND, MH support, family support, feeding and clothing children and chronic underfunding.
The unravelling and long, slow death of quality education is taking a while, but it’s happening. All the misconceptions of long holidays and short hours are just froth and air, unless action is taken soon, the slide downwards will be irrevocable without complete reform.

@Onandgrowing Yes I do know, school business manager here.
I don't know where the money will come from other than support staff won't be replaced. We are cut to the bone as it is.
But as a parent to a newly qualified Dr earning £14 per hour and a contracted 48 hour week I know which profession is more disadvantaged.

But as a parent to a newly qualified Dr earning £14 per hour and a contracted 48 hour week I know which profession is more disadvantaged

It is a short term pain, however, for doctors, with potentially uncapped earnings in the private sector. This is not how it works for teachers, even those in the private sector.

@Givenuptotally short term? I don't think so!
And do teachers pay for their CPD, no.
With regard to private, I know plenty who have taught in UAE and save more than a UK teacher earns, so there's opportunity there and to privately teach.

I know it might not seem much, when teachers warn of support staff being cut.
I taught for years without TAs or extra support, but that was before the huge numbers of children with additional needs were kept in mainstream. Without additional support, every child’s education is massively impacted.
Not just the ratio of teaching time available, but the consequences of needs not being met, from low/high level disruption, screaming and aggression to furniture throwing, physical violence, biting…
Everyone benefits from adequate, specialised support in schools. Not just the child with 1:1.
Strikes are a last resort, but I support them. What else is there that hasn’t been tried and ignored?

short term? I don't think so! And do teachers pay for their CPD, no. With regard to private, I know plenty who have taught in UAE and save more than a UK teacher earns, so there's opportunity there and to privately teach

I really don't want to get into a 'who's got it worse' argument. There really isn't any comparison between the average earnings of a teacher and those of a doctor in the long term, in my opinion. I may be wrong. And of course, that doesn't make the situation for junior doctors, in the here and now, any easier and I support strike action if that is what they consider they need to do.

Do teacher's pay for CPD? Well, yes, that can certainly be the case. Depends on whether or not your school will support your development. I attend an annual conference in my subject over the summer which costs me personally, for example, and I have completed a significant number of courses and paid for them - they are not something my school would pay for but my teaching is certainly enhanced as a result. I actually completed courses at the OU in a parallel subjectd to be able to offer more to the schools I work in which I paid for myself (and it wasn't cheap). As for private teaching, I work part time in an independent school and am top of the teaching scale where I earn the princely sum of £39 more annually than I do in the state school I am also in part-time. I realise this is not the case in all independents, some pay considerably over the odds, but the majority of teachers are not in independents, or abroad in the UAE, and it is those teachers we are talking about here. That's the majority of teachers teaching the majority of children in the UK.

I don't support anyone who strikes

It's not about being "disadvantaged". It's about the fact that public services funding is being cut and people are choosing not to go into public services due to the wages, which haven't risen significantly in over a decade. Teachers are part of that.

I have a degree, a PGCE, an MA and a PGDip. 13 years experience. My wages are not rising anywhere near in line with inflation and, at the top of my pay scale on about £42k, I cannot earn anymore unless I go into leadership. Since I started teaching I've been lucky if my wage has risen 2%, regardless of inflation, with years of pay freezes.

As such, I'm looking to leave the profession in the next year or two, probably. Yes, I'll lose the holidays just as my DC are starting school, but the thought of being able to progress and earn more, not to mention being able to perhaps work more flexibly, is more of a draw right now.

That's 8 years of training and studying relating to education, and 13 years direct experience, that won't be in teaching anymore. My story is not unique.

Those who don't think teachers should strike clearly aren't bothered that schools are having to choose cheaper, less experienced teachers, and those who do want to teach are leaving to pursue a better wage.

It's not a race to the bottom. All public services are struggling.

Why don't you support strikes?

People going on about teachers getting snow days off and comparing them to hospitals Have they forgotten that the vast majority of people in schools are children? Schools close for the safety of children on snow days.

I was just reading the junior doctor strike thread and some of their working conditions sound absolutely horrendous, I felt stressed just reading about it. Of course I support their right to strike.

BUT, just because teachers don't have it anywhere near as bad, that doesn't mean we shouldn't take action. It's not a race to the bottom where only the person with the worst working conditions gets to strike.

Education provision has been utterly devastated by lack of school funding over the last 12 years. TAs were the first to be made redundant a decade ago during 'austerity', so we're working with bare bones SEN departments already. Now we've made maths and English teachers redundant. We've lost support for the weakest, extra challenge for the most able. We've cut GCSE and A-level courses, including halfway through the course when we couldn't find any teacher to teach it. Exam classes have had a succession of supply teachers, or if sixth form, have had no teacher for extended periods. Last winter I taught in coat and gloves in freezing classrooms and will probably again this year due to lack of heating. We've had over a decade of real terms pay cuts. If teacher pay had risen merely in line with inflation, I'd be paid over £10k more than I am. This latest 5% "pay rise" is another grim pay cut, but the worst thing is that money is not funded by the government so the school will have to cut education provision to pay it (if they do pay it).

And the government is now talking about making further cuts to public services. Trimming the fat. While removing the cap that prevents bankers getting bonuses worth more than double their annual salary because that's what's holding the country back.

What. The Actual. Fuck.

Economic growth requires investment in education. If the fuckwits in government don't know that, then they need to be replaced with people who do.

What a brilliant argument. Not.

I have read recently that these people have been on strike

Postal workers
Telecommunications workers
Train & transport workers
Dock workers

Now there are discussion about teachers, doctors, nurses, fighters all wanting a better pay rise.

Of course every worker wants better pay !

However, when a person takes a job, they agree to the T&Cs

The company that I work for, is employing people on higher wages & better T&Cs than existing people (due to market rates). Some of the existing people have worked for 10, 15+ years & have a vast knowledge. No wonder that people are leaving for better paid jobs. We are not in a position to go on strike, even though we provide essential services.

I am old enough to remember the coal miner strikes too

There is always the choice to vote with your feet & leave

I support any employees' right to strike for better pay and conditions. This government has shown where their priorities lie.

This.

You are joking right?

Considering our job description has extended massively, and now a good portion of my job is to support mental health issues, family issues and complex SEND (which being honest, I wasn't trained very well for on my one year PGCE), rather than actual teaching, teachers should be getting way more.
But of course, people not in education won't realise this will they?

There is always the choice to vote with your feet & leave

You don’t see a problem with this?
Unions created the T&C of today, and should continue to do so. Or do you regret them arguing for the employment of married women, maternity benefits and reasonable working hours for the masses?

There is always the choice to vote with your feet & leave

🤦‍♀️ People have. And now we don't have anywhere near enough teachers to go round.

Do you want all teachers to quit before thinking about improving working conditions?

There is always the choice to vote with your feet & leave

I can't speak for junior doctors but this is exactly what teachers are doing right now. I belong to a Facebook group with thousands and thousands of teachers joining every week, looking for a way out. Stories of bullying and abuse come through at the rate of 10s a day....and with them, the same number of positive stories of people who have managed to leave and are finding life elsewhere a million times better. I can't think of a single regret posting that I have read.

So as I said upthread, in my subject, the Government only managed to secure 36% of it's required trainees in my subject specialism this year. And many more are leaving than just those who are retiring. What do you think the outcome of this will be? Can you explain the impact on your children's educations and futures?

I'm voting with my feet

Actively looking for another job

Not in a position to strike

Why don't we all strike? Hell, we have no trains & no post already, right?
RIP UK plc..

I can't speak for junior doctors but this is exactly what teachers are doing right now.

How people haven't noticed this yet is beyond me.

Also in addition to this school support staff are leaving in huge numbers, and the once holy grail job of school TA is becoming almost impossible to fill.

Hi OP, We have moved this out of 'AIBU' to 'Chat' for you now which has now removed the voting function.

Hope this helps.

It's not a race to the bottom

Carers getting approx £68 per week, disgusting

Can they go on strike ? No