To ask whether those who support a Junior Doctors’ strike would support a strike by teachers?

[Pottedpalm]

i would support a strike by Junior Doctors, though the idea is very frightening as a current patient in the healthcare system.
However, I wonder whether the massive support expressed for the Junior Doctors would be extended to teachers, who are also considering striking.

100% support for both here too.

In fact, as PPs have said, for anyone who wishes to strike for improvement in their working conditions.

I don’t support striking of any kind, so no, I wouldn’t support either.

@mum2bee2022 has done a perfect job of showing how spectacularly ignorant so many are of the real issues facing teachers working conditions and why we have such a big shortage.

Bottom line with both professions (and many others) is that if pay and working conditions were reflected in the level of training and experience required, we would not have the extreme shortage and recruitment difficulties we do.

Why don't you support strikes?

I know 3 teachers, all earning £50k

oh, well that must be all teachers then, eh?

to earn more than £50k, they will have taken on additional responsibilities. That is not the salary of the majority of teachers.

Solidarity

So you support workers being taken advantage of by big bosses then?

National pay scales are readily available so facts about pay are not up for debate.

We don't get paid for our holidays if that makes you feel better.

Yes, I support the strikes across the board. I will be inconvenienced, but enough is enough. Bring on the winter of discontent.

Everyone should be striking. Not just public sector workers, many people in the private sector are on shit pay too. Something needs to be done.

Does going on strike make any difference?

I was looking at recruitment levels for this current year just last week - in my subject area, only 36% of the total number required went into ITT this year. That means those new teachers will have their pick of jobs (and not forgetting a percentage will not pass and of those that do, some will never start teaching). So if they’ve any sense, they will take up posts in the independent sector and at the best state schools they can find. God help the less than perfect schools when trying to recruit for shortage subjects (and increasing, non-shortage subjects). And there’s literally no hope for deprived areas. That means your children are increasingly being taught my non-specialists in core areas. It means the gap between those who can pay and those who can’t is widening. It means house prices increasing in catchments of good state schools. It means people will take risks, lie, anything to get their kids into the better schools. Most of all, it means the majority of our children are not receiving the education they deserve, let alone the education they need to compete effectively in a global market.

But go ahead, ignore the crisis, don’t support pay increases. Your children and grandchildren are not going to thank you.

Yes.

arriva north west are a prime example. They where offered what was in effect a pay cut and a conditions cut. They went on strike and their unions did their stuff and a deal was reached which worked for the staff and didn’t erode their conditions.

I'd support both. It's ridiculous that it's necessary, but when you have a government that prioritises the rich it seems unavoidable.

Obviously. Just study 20th and 21st century history.

@Givenuptotally has it spot on. It's terrifying really, the education some children get.

So tired of the teacher bashing by some posters. We all work 9-3, an hour for lunch and paid holidays 🙄

Exactly and its important to bear that in mind because it means the hourly rate is actually much higher than most public sector graduate roles. I agree with you that it is really important to bear that in mind.

I can't believe that anyone thinks that teacher working hours are good.

The paid hours might be but you can add on an extra 20 or so hours a week unpaid in term time (at least) plus some more unpaid hours during school holidays.

I often wonder if the issue is people feel they should earn more than people in some professions (train drivers/bus drivers as well as teachers spring to mind) so will take an example of the pay of an experienced, likely senior & long serving person in one of those professions and compare their own pay and decide the profession as a whole must be paid too much so therefore should just shut up and be grateful.

They cannot be “just” teachers then. They must be on the senior management scale. I am at the top of the upper pay scale for teachers and also earn a decent tlr for managing a fairly large department and I don’t make 50k. As for the social hours comment in an earlier post of yours, that made me laugh out loud. I’m in school from 7.30am until 5.30pm each day…except a Friday when I leave early at 4.30pm. I also work a whole day at a weekend, often turning down social invitations (not exactly social). This is just to stay on top of the minimum of my workload. Not a moan, it’s my choice to do this job but I’m merely pointing out the facts that you seem to be adamant don’t apply because you know others for whom it is different. We all know a teacher who seems to be able to arrive at 8.30 and leave at 4 and seemingly do little work outside of those hours, but, I can assure you that currently, in the vast majority of schools this is not the case for the vast majority of staff.

I dunno, its a bit shit because obviously you don't get paid for strike days. But hopefully it will yes. I guess it is about showing the impact that your profession has and the easiest way to do this is to withdraw your labour. Sadly the impact will mostly be felt by low earning families who won't be able to go to work that day either and of course the children themselves. So it is hard to say if the powers that be will give a shit about that. Depends on how many actually strike too I guess, we have never really been affected much in the past as staff in my DCs school don't seem to strike - though maybe that is due to whatever union they happen to be in, I really don't know.

There is also an issue that budgets are so poor experienced teachers just cannot move schools and maintain their pay grade. I'm on upper pay scale in a primary school and am concerned with low budgets and low birth rates I will be made redundant. There's no way I will find another primary post on the upper pay scale, even though I bring extra skills such as the SENCO award and Designated Safeguarding Lead. Not to mention schools need experienced teachers to set expectations for behaviour for the whole school. Understandably, newly qualifieds can rarely lead on behaviour.

Of course. Everyone should have the right to withold labour.

As a former school teacher, I think the worry here would be that the work would all pile up and still be there after the strike.
I've done work to rule in other roles (uni lecturer) and it's pretty meaningless for that reason.

mum2bee2022 I wondered which sector you taught in? State/private, primary/ secondary?

I work in a state primary in south east London. 30 children. About 5 x the National SEN average. 1/3 EAL.

I get into class at 7 am, and leave at 6 pm. That is 11 hours a day. My contract says that should be 24 hours a week on a 0.8 contract (4 days a week) I’ve done at least 24 hours by 1st break on a Wednesday…
<laughs mirthlessly >
I work 0.8 so I can work unpaid on a Friday so I can see my own family at the weekend. And all this for the princely salary of £24K.

My school is a Victorian building, the heating often doesn’t work. We wear our coats inside, and have never been sent home. We do have a leaking roof that I shove the book bag boxes under to collect the rain water. On very wet days I have to move the reading corner or the books get wet.

My husband gets to work from home, can walk the dog, go to medical appointments. Attend our children’s school events, take a day off to take older children to university open days.

The old ‘oh all those holidays’ gets trotted out, but I get paid for 39 weeks of work across 12 months. I don’t get paid for all 12 months.

If it was such a sweet gig, why is there such a retention and recruitment crisis?