'Karen'

[teaandtoastwithmarmite]

Does anyone else despise this term? I see it on Facebook posts (public ones not friends). Also a boy in my DD's class called my DD one after she asked him to be quiet in class. I did say she shouldn't taken it upon herself to tell him off but where has he got that term from? It annoys me.

Perhaps my view is different as I have only ever heard it in racial contexts. Perhaps that explains my view, reflecting on it. So whenever I have heard the term, the racist and bigoted views of the "karen" is worse than the person being called karen. Obviously. There was an example her a while ago, when a women objected pearl clutchingly to having been called a Karen when she had shouted at a black little girl who was autistic and had got the woman and her little Timmy wet as the girl had splashed water by jumping in a puddle. The woman was so indignant at being called a Karen and posters were indignant on her behalf. Everyone seemed to forget that she had shouted at a little girl with SEN💔. It just occured to me, reflecting on this, that I only hear the Karen term in regards to white women berating brown and black people.

Very good post. Thank you.

Chainunderreaction You used Gammon as an example and I was responding to that. I equally find remarks which stereotype teenagers or racist microaggressions offensive. Any stereotypes.

As for your mum losing her sense of humour in menopause, well that's unfortunate for her but I don't think that's universal.

It definitely seems common from being on here for a few years

Especially topics where the bulk of the users are women who have been through the menopause

Especially topics where the bulk of the users are women who have been through the menopause

Bloody hell are you seriously saying that all women who have been through the menopause have no sense of humour? Comes across as ageist tbh.

There's always a big scrap on here about the meaning of Karen. Attention is drawn to the racism attached to the original meaning and people are accused of piggybacking on this with their separate issues. I believe meaning can flex and change, especially when an expression is carried across from America. Just because there was an original context, doesn't mean it isn't used in this country to pillory older women who have the audacity to assert themselves. And just because some posters haven't come across it in this sense, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

As above, Karen is my name and it is not nice to have people using it as an insult.

I daren't ever comment on any social media, news stories etc, because trolls call people who dare to express an opinion "Karen" so would rip me apart if I ever dared to comment. It is definitely an insult and it is horrible. Things like kids tomb stoning and somebody posts "oh that is so unsafe someone died there last year doing that" and the response they get is " yeah ok Karen" with laughing emojis or rolling eyes emojis.

Every time I see somebody put "yeah ok Karen" I want to put "well us Karen's prefer to call them Susan (or Dave or whatever the poster is called). See how they like it.

Anyone who thinks it is totally fine, just substitute your own name for Karen and see how you would feel if you kept reading it in an offensive abusive way day after day and knew that your name is an insult that is thrown at other people.

It is not being oversensitive. It is being used as a way to insult anyone, male or female, who dares to give an opinion that others don't like, and often the "Karen" is correct in what they are saying which is why trolls rip the mickey out of them.

I certainly don't fit the label, but now hate my name after 50+ years, thanks to all the twats who now misuse it.

Nope

But you're doing a good job of showing questionable reading abilities

I'm saying on topics where the majority of posters have been through the menopause many seem to not 'get' sarcasm, funny posts, the odd bit of dark humour

And that does feed into the Karen stereotype, as some I've seen accused or labelled a Karen will be what most on here call a Pearl clutcher - being ott or not understanding a more humorous context to a situation.

I know you don't like 'stereotypes' in general, but most of those who find issue with certain stereotypes will be due to fitting that label in one way or another.

I don't know any middle aged white women who find Karen offensive, but that's because none of the middle aged white women I know fit the stereotype

I know you don't like 'stereotypes' in general, but most of those who find issue with certain stereotypes will be due to fitting that label in one way or another

We can agree to disagree. And also about this-

I'm saying on topics where the majority of posters have been through the menopause many seem to not 'get' sarcasm, funny posts, the odd bit of dark humour

How does going through the menopause mean you no longer get sarcasm Total ageist BS.

karenismyname it sounds really difficult and I can see why it would get you down.

So true

It's no secret that the menopause can lead to a lot of women having fluctuations in mood and impact their overall levels of sensitivity.

Those that are sensitive often struggle with sarcasm and take things more seriously than intended, often not understanding something is a joke.

This is true for sensitive people of any age, but it's a common side effect of the menopause so it goes hand in hand with age too for women.

Last week a 9/10 year old boy told me I was a 'fucking Karen' when I asked him to stop doing something potentially dangerous in the school playground. I'm a woman in my 50s. At age 9/10 that child already knows that he is using an offensive term that is specifically directed towards me simply because of my age and sex. I'm more or less certain that if my male colleague of a similar age had asked him to stop what he was doing he would not have received similar abuse.

It's a horrible term and everyone needs to stop using it.

Although if the situation were that you're white (dont know if you are) and the child was black (dont know if he was) then his reaction would be acceptable by the sound of things on here.

Plus of course if he has any SEN then of course you cant tell him to stop doing things either.

I do use it as shorthand to describe a very specific kind of woman but I do see that it has now been completely co-opted and is used as an insult to a woman (of a certain age) basically just for existing.

Last week a 9/10 year old boy told me I was a 'fucking Karen' when I asked him to stop doing something potentially dangerous in the school playground

I presume as you were in school he was suitably punished. Not just for the sexist ageist "Karen" insult but also for the swearing.

I guess if you'd been male he would have said something along the lines of "why are you telling me what to f-in do" - still swearing but not as offensive.

What is a very specific type of woman?

Don't you mean very specific type of behaviour (which isn't confined to women).

So stop doing it then. If you want to describe someone as racist be a grown up and say racist.

So of course the consensus on here would be anti the term, because people feel attacked

I agree with Pp the only people who tend to be hurt by the label fit the description

it's a lazy insult. That's why women of a certain age find it offensive. It's also really offensive to say that every woman over 45 must fit the "criteria" that you have decided the name Karen fits. I mean, really. EVERY woman over 45 deserves criticism and behaves in the way you have decided "Karens" do? Yeah right.

Although I guess as the Karen generation get older the idiots will have to find another insult for females who dare to express an opinion.

And men of any age go right on complaining expressing opinions and nobody cares.

I see it far too often used as an insult to try to silence women aged 30+ when trying to assert themselves.

Depending on how the conversation went (which we are not privy too) then yes it would. My 10 year old sometimes refer to women who has subjected him to racism as Karen's.

100% this.

‘The Karen’ has existed for centuries in the US (previously called ‘Becky’ among other names black people have called meddling white women there) where women have used their white privilege, sometimes to deadly effect. A 14 year old black boy named Emmett Till was murdered after a white woman accused him of offending him in a grocery store. The Central Park Karen (‘I’m calling the police to tell them there’s a BLACK man threatening me’)..that occurred on the same day George Floyd got murdered. I don’t know which was worse, a cop killing a black person, or a white woman who knows the system is rigged against black people by emphasising the man’s colour in her phone call.

The Karen is white supremacy in heels.

It's a horrible way of shutting women up.

I do! But again, Karen as shorthand reflects the exact type of person and behaviour to a T.

@GaffNest I've wondered this too. I don't think I can say which is worse and both are certainly horrific. But I notice among my friends and I and in general life I have to deal with a lot more Karens than violent cops. Thing is dealing with Karens really is death by a thousand paper cuts. I've said before on unrelated threads about lockdown that WFH was one of the best things that came out of lockdown for black (and other minority) women especially!