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I've just thought of a massive HP plot hole

83 replies

mayaknew · 14/09/2022 12:56

We know that Harry can summon Kreacher. Why doesn't he use Kreacher more when they are in the run?

Particularly to send messages to the DA at Hogwarts? Since Kreacher lives there, surely Harry could send messages, get info and use him more?

I must be missing something as to why he just forgets about him.

OP posts:
Fluffygreenslippers · 14/09/2022 13:53

Kanaloa · 14/09/2022 13:06

I always say why did the fourth book happen? Why would Voldemort’s servant Barty Crouch Jr disguise himself as Mad Eye Moody to help Harry win a tournament where the end prize was a portkey to tsar him to a graveyard so Voldemort could kill him? Why not just say ‘excuse me Harry, can I see you in my office about your essay?’ And boot him into the fire and floo powder him to Voldemort?

Or better yet, why not just not pretend to be Mad Eye, rent a van, and grab Harry off the street in Hogsmeade or somewhere? He’s a child, just chuck him in the van and knock him out or something.

And why didn’t Sirius just break into Ron’s house to kill his rat? Why wait until he’s at Hogwarts where it will be super duper hard to get near him? Better yet, why not just write a letter to Dumbledore? Btw, Ron Weasley rat Peter Pettigrew, secret animagus, love Sirius Black xoxo

FURTHERMORE, in a world where people can read minds and there is a potion that is confirmed to force people to speak the truth no matter what, how does anybody end up in prison for a crime they’ve not committed? Surely you could consent to veritaserum to prove you are speaking truthfully? Same with the fifth book where the papers are denigrating Harry and co? Why don’t they just say we will take veritaserum so you know we honestly did see Voldemort.

I do love JK and the books still. But half the books make no sense 😂

I might be wrong but I was under the understanding that viritaserum was notoriously hard to make, requiring rare ingredients & a certain time to make it. I think Snape was one of the very few people even capable of making it. But you have a really good point!

Fluffygreenslippers · 14/09/2022 13:57

PuttingDownRoots · 14/09/2022 13:34

Why didn't Harry's Primary School teachers notice the abuse?

Also... why did the Dursley, who prided appearance above everything, allow themselves to be seen mistreating Harry in this way... wouldn't they want to be seen with a son and nephew equally well presented and spoilt?

They were petty people with a huge fear of the unknown. They thought Harry’s parents were freaks and took it out on their son. Petunia also always harboured a deep resentment towards her more extraordinary, prettier sister, even after she died. But I agree with you, wouldn’t they worry about the neighbours gossiping?

Deadringer · 14/09/2022 14:07

Kreacher was treacherous, and we know that house elves can do things against their master's wishes, as Dobby helped Harry despite it going against the Malfoy's plans.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about these subjects:

Travis1 · 14/09/2022 14:09

Because Kreacher was an evil wee bastard that couldn't be trusted

SimonAndGarthsUncle · 14/09/2022 14:13

A bigger plot hole is probably that wizards don’t exist

Kanaloa · 14/09/2022 14:18

SimonAndGarthsUncle · 14/09/2022 14:13

A bigger plot hole is probably that wizards don’t exist

That isn’t a plot hole - it is accepted in this novel that wizards exist. It’s like, it’s not a plot hole to have Dany fly in on a dragon because dragons are a previously established canonical plot element. A plot hole is when something doesn’t make sense in the context of the fictional world as it has been established.

So, it isn’t a plot hole that they can read minds in Twilight, because we the reader accept that vampires have superpowers in this fictional world as it’s been explained. It would be a plot hole if a huge storyline hinged on not knowing what someone was thinking because we’re aware that one of them can read minds.

Fink · 14/09/2022 14:44

Kanaloa · 14/09/2022 13:06

I always say why did the fourth book happen? Why would Voldemort’s servant Barty Crouch Jr disguise himself as Mad Eye Moody to help Harry win a tournament where the end prize was a portkey to tsar him to a graveyard so Voldemort could kill him? Why not just say ‘excuse me Harry, can I see you in my office about your essay?’ And boot him into the fire and floo powder him to Voldemort?

Or better yet, why not just not pretend to be Mad Eye, rent a van, and grab Harry off the street in Hogsmeade or somewhere? He’s a child, just chuck him in the van and knock him out or something.

And why didn’t Sirius just break into Ron’s house to kill his rat? Why wait until he’s at Hogwarts where it will be super duper hard to get near him? Better yet, why not just write a letter to Dumbledore? Btw, Ron Weasley rat Peter Pettigrew, secret animagus, love Sirius Black xoxo

FURTHERMORE, in a world where people can read minds and there is a potion that is confirmed to force people to speak the truth no matter what, how does anybody end up in prison for a crime they’ve not committed? Surely you could consent to veritaserum to prove you are speaking truthfully? Same with the fifth book where the papers are denigrating Harry and co? Why don’t they just say we will take veritaserum so you know we honestly did see Voldemort.

I do love JK and the books still. But half the books make no sense 😂

Re. the lies/prison thing, the only people we know who end up falsely accused (apart from Sirius, who doesn't try to deny his guilt and isn't tried) are Hokey and Morfin Gaunt, who both had their memories modified so that veritaserum wouldn't have worked. And the people who are up as Muggleborn magic thieves in the 7th book, but the Ministry & Death Eaters are deliberately out to catch them so they wouldn't offer anything which might prove their innocence. I guess for Harry, the issue is that he's painted by the Ministry, via the Daily Prophet, as delusional, so it wouldn't make any difference to give him veritaserum because they would continue to say that he genuinely believes what he's saying, but he's actually mentally disturbed.

I'm not sure about the fourth book, but I think there may be an unspoken idea that Crouch could have carried on pretending to be Mad Eye for as long as was useful, even after Harry's planned death, so anything which too directly implicated him in the events would be counterproductive. It's only Crouch's own mistakes which lead to him being uncovered. We obviously don't know what the exact plan was, since Harry foiled it, but it seems likely that Voldemort would have wanted to remain in hiding and continuing to have a spy at Hogwarts could have been handy.

Fink · 14/09/2022 14:47

As for why Harry's teachers didn't notice the abuse, a) it was the 80s, they weren't as hot on safeguarding as they are now, especially when it came to a naice MC family; b) the Dursleys deliberately painted Harry as a troublemaker and disturbed, if the teachers noticed anything Petunia would probably be able to brush it off as his fault.

takingmytimeonmyride · 14/09/2022 14:48

If Harry saw Peter Pettigrew on the marauders map as Scabbers, why didn't Fred and George see him and wonder who this person was who was always hanging around with Ron? And sleeping with him. 😂

mayaknew · 14/09/2022 14:51

Yeah I see you're point about Kreacher. Just seems like a waste.

Oh the marauders map and Peter pettigrew has definitely got to be the biggest plot hole.

Also I don't believe for a minute Fred and George would have given up that map!! A better storyline would have been Harry finding it himself in filchs office

OP posts:
BiscuitLover3678 · 14/09/2022 14:53

I think because they’re all human and only realise some of these things with hindsight. Also, teenagers.

Regulus · 14/09/2022 14:56

SimonAndGarthsUncle · 14/09/2022 14:13

A bigger plot hole is probably that wizards don’t exist

We most certainly do.

Harry couldn't trust Kreacher, which was a shame as once Harry gave him my locket he truly became Harry's elf.

Fink · 14/09/2022 15:06

My biggest bugbear is how Herrmione, who is constantly portrayed as super intelligent, hardworking, and diligent, only managed to get 10 OWLs whereas Percy, Bill, and Barty Crouch Jr each got 12 and none of them are described as being outstandingly bright. Did they all have timeturners and just not get as tired as her? Did they sit exams in subjects they hadn't had a class for? Did they get lower grades than her (which still wouldn't explain the discrepancy)? Did the timetabling options/number of teachers suddenly change between Percy's year and Hermione's? Why does Percy advise Harry on which subjects to choose when he himself is doing all of them? It just doesn't make sense. It's not a plot hole, since there's no plot point which depends on it, it just annoys me.

Prescottdanni123 · 14/09/2022 15:10

Whike Kreacher was never an active death eater, a lot of his views were in line with that of the Dark lord (hatred of muggleborns etc) During Voldermort's first reign of terror, the Black family were on his side, apart from Sirius and eventually Regulus. Kreacher adored Sirius' mother and in the books, made it clear that he supported her beliefs.Harry couldn't let him know what many of his plans were, nor could he send him on to many errands in case he bumped into a death eater and told them stuff. He just wasn't trustworthy enough.

Fink · 14/09/2022 15:14

Fred and George gave away the Marauders' Map telling Harry that they didn't need it anymore because they knew all the secret passageways already. That indicates that they didn't use the people's location on it very much. Possibly they never checked in on their brother, because he wasn't someone they were trying to hide from, and so they never saw Pettigrew on there.

Another option is that possibly only the Marauders themselves could see each other on the map, since Lupin is the only one who sees either Pettigrew or Sirius. I don't remember Harry ever seeing Lupin on it, but I might be wrong.

Borgonzola · 14/09/2022 15:17

I've always wondered:

  • where are potter's grandparents? If his parents both died in their early twnties, why would all grandparents be dead too?
  • why do they celebrate Christmas?
Googlecanthelpme · 14/09/2022 15:19

Btw, Ron Weasley rat Peter Pettigrew, secret animagus, love Sirius Black xoxo

love this, very true 🤣

PuttingDownRoots · 14/09/2022 15:27

Borgonzola · 14/09/2022 15:17

I've always wondered:

  • where are potter's grandparents? If his parents both died in their early twnties, why would all grandparents be dead too?
  • why do they celebrate Christmas?

James patents died of dragon pox. Lily's parent in an accident I believe.

Fink · 14/09/2022 15:34

Borgonzola · 14/09/2022 15:17

I've always wondered:

  • where are potter's grandparents? If his parents both died in their early twnties, why would all grandparents be dead too?
  • why do they celebrate Christmas?

For the Christmas thing, it's because they're in the UK where it's a cultural celebration for secular people as well as religious, and because some of them are Christian. Wizards appear to have religious beliefs just like muggles. If not, for a start it would be very awkward for any muggle borns - would they be expected to declare themselves atheist before accepting a place at a wizarding school? The Dumbledores have a biblical quotation on their grave, Harry has a godfather (and was asked to be a godfather in turn), they seem to have varying degrees of religious practice and faiths just like in the muggle world.

MichelleScarn · 14/09/2022 15:36

Do they not call it Yule rather than Christmas?

Fink · 14/09/2022 15:37

MichelleScarn · 14/09/2022 15:36

Do they not call it Yule rather than Christmas?

No, they have the Yule Ball in GoF, but everything else associated with it is called Christmas.

Kanaloa · 14/09/2022 15:40

They sort of do Easter as well, don’t they - Mrs Weasley sends them Easter eggs anyway. But they don’t seem to observe any other religious celebrations like Eid or anything, so presumably Hogwarts only celebrated Christian festivals. Interesting.

FernPotts · 14/09/2022 15:41

Why would Voldemort’s servant Barty Crouch Jr disguise himself as Mad Eye Moody to help Harry win a tournament where the end prize was a portkey to tsar him to a graveyard so Voldemort could kill him? Why not just say ‘excuse me Harry, can I see you in my office about your essay?’ And boot him into the fire and floo powder him to Voldemort?

I decided totally without book-reason that this was probably because Hogwarts has magical protection for its students, but the normal rules had to be suspended for the Triwizard challenges.

Minesril · 14/09/2022 15:41

Harry didn't see Pettigrew on the map. That was only in the film.

Even if the twins did see him, they probably didn't know who it was, or just thought it was another student. By the time harry started Hogwarts they'd already had the map for two years and probably knew all the secret entrances/didn't need to refer to it anymore.

Nagado · 14/09/2022 15:43

Another option is that possibly only the Marauders themselves could see each other on the map, since Lupin is the only one who sees either Pettigrew or Sirius. I don't remember Harry ever seeing Lupin on it, but I might be wrong Nope. It was Harry who saw Peter Pettigrew and told Lupin that the map wasn’t working after Lupin rescued him from Snape.

Also I don't believe for a minute Fred and George would have given up that map!! A better storyline would have been Harry finding it himself in filchs office I’d like to know how they knew to solemnly swear they were up to no good and sign off with mischief managed. It can’t have been a general spell or Snape would have used it when he found Harry in the corridor and the map told him to keep his abnormally large nose out of other people’s business.