Max GCSE grade possible is a 5. Can someone explain this to me, pls?

[ShouldersBackChestOutChinUp]

Dd will take GCSEs in summer 2023.

She's just told me she's been over oden a set in science which means she will only be able to achieve a maximum grade of 5. That's it. However hard she works or well she does.

I don't really understand. I get that she's clearly not good at science but what if she were able to get a six or even scrape a 7 after tutoring? But she's blocked from doing so.

What's the logic in this, please?

Hasn’t it always been like this for some subjects? When I was at school if you took the higher maths paper you could get a-c but if you didn’t get the marks for a c your would get a U
If you took the middle paper you would get a c-e but even 100% would only score you a C

They will be putting her in for the foundation paper by the sounds of it. Its an easier paper therefore doesn't include the quest needed to get higher than a 5. The idea being thats better than doing the higher paper and potentially failing.

She is being put in for Foundation tier, which is capped at a 5.
There is less content and questions tend to be more straightforward.
The risk with a less able student when they do Higher tier is they fall off the bottom of the grades and end up with a U whereas if they had done Foundation they might have got a 4-4 or even 5-4.

If you really think she could realistically get a 6-6 or 7-6 then talk to the school about being moved sets. But she has done y10, they will have a good idea of where she's at.
Nothing wrong with a 5-5 unless she wants to do Science A levels.

Higher papers and lower papers prob.

She is sitting the foundation paper and top grade is a 5.
The school have probably decided she has a better chance of getting a 4/5 in foundation than risk not getting the grade on higher paper.

You could ask the school if they’ll assess her for higher paper? But if she isn’t interested in science A levels then it doesn’t mater anyway.

No I mean I don't mind really. I just didn't understand how it worked.

She's clearly not doing well at school in every subject. 😞

Disappointing that is yet another subject she's performing badly in despite her scoring very highly in the CAT4 tests a couple of years ago.

It is the foundation paper which includes less content and less of the challenging grade 6,7,8 and 9 questions that higher has. As a result, it's decided she has more chance of getting a 4/5 in the foundation than the higher. Some children do higher but don't get the 4 as they have less questions in that bracket available to answer.

DH is a private tutor in Maths and he helped a parent get their child put onto higher, but this was only because he tested her and saw she was capable. She got a 7 in the end. But he has tutored others on foundation and not suggested they put in for the higher paper because he sees their struggle, they end up working hard on foundation and getting the top grade of a 5, which means that they got what they could as a maximum but also allowed them to develop the knowledge in the areas tested and focus.

Teachers do know best in these scenarios. You can discuss with them why they've decided this route if you think she's capable of a 6/7 but I'd definitely ensure you have a tutor who agrees who you can afford weekly up until the exam.

Exactly this.

'Always' is a relative term. If the OP is old enough to have done O levels then no it wasn't like that then, or of course the OP may not have been educated in England/Wales.

If you think she's capable of better then maybe speak to the school. At my school there was a lot of consideration before kids were put in the Foundation route. That was where they could earn C-G, because they could still do something with a D or E grade. In a higher paper, it's A-C or a fail. So for kids who are deemed likely to fail a higher paper and not even gain a C, it's safer to put them on the Foundation one so they'll at least get something.

That said, they were usually very un-academic, un-driven kids who hated school, so if it's coming as a surprise to you, maybe there's more going on at the school?

With the new 9-1 grades, schools have had to be more conservative about entry tiers. A lot were caught out in the first year by higher tier kids ending up not getting a 4-4 or higher, and the boards had to add in a 3-3 which hadn't been planned-for for them, as otherwise too many would have got the U grade.

Yes, the teachers have decided that her best chance of getting at least a 4-4 is to sit the foundation paper.

Toom many Higher paper candidates in the first year were getting below a grade 4 when they would have been a dead cert for a 4 or 5 if sitting Foundation.

If she does the higher and gets less than a 4 then she gets a U and fails. So if she's not that strong in science then she's better off taking the foundation paper. It's always been like this for maths. In 1988 we had to choose of we wanted to take foundation or higher; if you got 100% in the foundation paper then you'd get a C - because the foundation paper is obviously a lot easier than the higher paper.

If the teachers thought there was any remote possibility she was likely to get higher than a 5 then they would be putting her in for Higher.

I don't know what she's capable of. I do trust the teacher's judgement.

I suppose I could just do with some good news for once.

Thank you for the clear explanations.

What is a 5 anyway in old money? A C?

A 5 is a high C low B.

There can be lots of different qualifications though our school do;

2 GCSE;'s in foundation combined science for the lower groups
3 GCSE's in Physics, Chemistry and Biology in higher version (so more work AND higher grades) for the top group(s)

So there is a choice of max (5-5) or minimum (6-6-6)...

You can also do the three separate GCSE's in foundation and combined science in higher. (which my kids school doesn't offer)

I think you can do the combined science as 3 gcse's too but not sure many do that.

I would speak to the school politely and have a really honest conversation with them. Put your point across but listen to what they have to say too. With all the covid stuff my child lost out in terms of the sets he was put in. But he was more capable than that and had been lost in the system. His teachers agreed to revisit and he has been moved now to the level he should be at.

@DuchessofAnkh77 I think you are confused (unless your school does something very unusual I haven't heard about)

Combined science, 2 GCSEs, grades look like 5-4 or 7-7 all papers either Higher or Foundation tier.

Separate sciences 3 separate GCSEs, each can be done at either Higher or Foundation tier. Grades completely separate so you can get 9 for physics and 3 for Biology and 5 for Chemistry. You don't get a combined grade such as 6-6-6.

Honestly I would view this as good news especially as you knew she wasn't fantastic at science. We have all breathed a huge sigh of relief in this house today as its been confirmed DS is doing foundation maths. If they are a might scrape a C type student then foundation paper is definitely the way to go. Unless they want to do the subject at A level for most kids passing is the main thing.

No they do the three separate ones at higher level (not foundation). So yes to three separate grades but they are all at higher level

They do the combined science at foundation level.

For me that is quite a big jump, as it more content and more work.

Maybe it is unusual but it's hat my DC's school does.

I'd have a chat with the school if you're unsure but it may be the right thing- if science isn't her forte then much better to do foundation level and get a 5 than higher level and risk a fail. A 5 is absolutely fine unless she wants to do science A levels. So maybe better to see this as good news- her teachers are making decisions that will give her the best chance in her particular circumstances. What does DD think about it?

But a 5 isn't "doing badly". It's a respectable pass everywhere but mumsnet.