Max GCSE grade possible is a 5. Can someone explain this to me, pls?

[ShouldersBackChestOutChinUp]

Dd will take GCSEs in summer 2023.

She's just told me she's been over oden a set in science which means she will only be able to achieve a maximum grade of 5. That's it. However hard she works or well she does.

I don't really understand. I get that she's clearly not good at science but what if she were able to get a six or even scrape a 7 after tutoring? But she's blocked from doing so.

What's the logic in this, please?

I didn't realise there was a Science Foundation level paper. I thought there was just Foundation level maths.

Foundation levels would be a very good thing for my daughter who has Dyslexia and ADHD.

I know she'll be taking Foundation level maths. I'd be very happy if that's now also an option for Science.

Is there Foundation level English yet?

The lower ability children don't get a chance to demonstrate what they can actually do if the papers are too challenging. Foundation level gives them that opportunity.

@DuchessofAnkh77 I see what you are saying better now. But it was this bit So there is a choice of max (5-5) or minimum (6-6-6)... that isn't quite right,
a) because higher tier grades go down to a 3 and
b) because they aren't combined grades which writing with hyphens kind of implies.

What did she get in her CATS, OP?

A 5 is a pretty good result, you know. It's a definite C+ grade equivalent. Unless she wants to do A level science it's perfectly good. Look on job adverts - if they mention GCSE's at all, all the requirements are for GCSE's at 5 (C) or above. They don't really care whether it's a 5 or a 9 as long as it's decent. Equally, once she's achieved no doubt excellent grades at her next level of education, it won't matter too much either because that will be the important qualification.

It was, because those who weren't expected to get a C at Olevel were entered for CSE with the highest possible grade being roughly equivalent to a C grade Olevel.

That's true, (though CSE was an entirely different qualification).

@ThanksItHasPockets I don't actually know her score. I just got an email from school 2 years ago saying her scores indicate that she is "highly able" and that she should join the HPQ cohort.

She did. She hated it and dropped out.

This "highly able" label isn't translating into any good grades at school. She's predicted 3s and 4s in all subjects. I'm disappointed for her. I had thought she was capable of higher. Clearly not.

Her older brother just failed his AS levels with Es.

They're clearly not at all academic desperate what this CAT4 test indicates.

An E is NOT a fail at AS or A Level, it is a pass, and gets UCAS points for university entry.

An E is a very low score. It's not something to be proud of.

His school would not let him continue to full A level.

He has to repeat the year.

This "highly able" label isn't translating into any good grades at school. She's predicted 3s and 4s in all subjects. I'm disappointed for her. I had thought she was capable of higher. Clearly not.
Ah, it's not that clear at all. Some of them don't start working at their full potential until the exams are staring them in the face and the adrenaline kicks in.
She may surprise you. She's clearly capable of doing so.

Has she (and ds) been assessed for any support. Some able children can do really well masking their difficulties when younger but then when they are older and the work is harder/ more time pressure they run into difficulties.

Op I don't know what cat scores are or how they are taken.
It seems quite late in the day however to not really know what she is capable of or where she is?

Do you think she's not motivated?. doesn't like her school? Doesn't try hard?
Is she happy?

What's the school like? Has she had good feedback?
Why did her brothers fail?

In my experience a whole host of things can stand between an able child and them reaching their potential.

As pp said perhaps science isn't important? Maybe let that one go and get her motivated and get her tutors for English and maths?

What would motivated her to pass?

Usually money but I would get her tutored asap.

5 is the highest you can get at foundation

Trilogy science or combined science means two grades at the end. With a higher paper they can go from a 1-1 up to a 9-9 and everything in between. Foundation is 1-1 to 5-5

A 5 is still a very good grade, one grade above a 'pass' grade

Unfortunatly just because she was predicted to do well doesn't always translate to she will.

I know that our students did far better on combined science than seperate sciences this year.

If she's just started year 11 the final decision for the tier she will take won't be decided till January time as she will sit mocks I imagine first in around November time for paper 1 and see how she does with those

If in doubt speak to her teacher about whether it's an ability thing or something else

What board do you teach? You cannot get a grade 1 or 2 on a higher paper. You can get a 'safety net' 3 if you just miss out on the 4 but anything below this is a U.

Have the school set up any kind of intervention for her?
She still has time to improve before her final round of mocks and if she is able but just needs to focus harder this might be the push she needs
Have you asked the head of year if there's any extra help available to.
Do you think once she's done her first mocks the result might shock her into action?

Just to be clear, and I dont believe it, despite working in schools, a 4 is considered to be the equivalent of an old C grade. So a pass. It really isnt and neither is a 5 a B, despite what some one up thread said.

For anyone who doubts this please just look at a foundation paper in Science, Maths or English. A bright 10 year old would manage just fine.

I was the last year to do Olevels. For maths we did what was called 16+, so for part of the cohort, the top grade was equivalent to a grade C at O level.
Previously I believe they were called CSEs

It really isn't a pass, or it really isn't a C grade equivalent? If that's what it is, it's unaffected by "belief", really...

@TeenDivided It was like that because she'd have been put in for CSE instead of O levels and running the risk of a D grade or lower, which were often considered fails.

You could double enter back then - I did for 3 subjects - but the syllabuses were different and it was quite a bit of extra work to do both.

A bright 10yo hasn't normally done trig nor parallel angle rules and most won't have done quadratic equations, all of which are on the syllabus for foundation tier maths.

The % getting 4+ was meant to be pegged to the % getting C prereform. So believe what you like but the facts don't change.

Parallel line rules, you don't get parallel angles doh.

I've been out of mainstream a couple of years ago, but we never used CAT scores to generate GCSE targets; they always came from SATs scores. CATs were extra info in the same way teacher reports were, but mostly useful for children who had underachieved in the SATs.

Not that the SATs were that good at predicting targets ... If your daughter is in Y10, I'm guessing she has been put in a science set based on assessments in Y9. That's what you need to look at - teacher assessments at the end of Year 9. They won't be able to predict a final grade, but they should be able to tell you whether they're expecting Grade 4-6 or higher.

If a student is predicted a 5, they absolutely can get higher with extra teaching, but for Maths and Science, the paper (and therefore content) is tiered. Other papers aren't - all students are given the same paper. If your daughter is capable of higher science grades and you have the means to help her achieve them, you need to work with the school - and be ready to accept that it's too much and stick with the Foundation paper if that's what's best.

She's clearly not doing well at school in every subject.

As a teacher I promise you that grades aren’t everything.

It doesn’t matter if she gets lower than what she needs as nowadays there are so many foundation courses and things, which makes it easier to still achieve what you want in the long run.

Does she know what she wants to be when she’s older?

I would focus on this and think about where she wants to attend after school which may encourage her to carry on.

An apprenticeship may be good for her too.

@ShouldersBackChestOutChinUp, How did she get on with SATS?

Not that its highly relevant but it might show if she has had a dip at some stage.

Have you reviewed any of her work that has been marked by teachers? Does she know what she needs to do to improve?

With a higher paper they can go from a 1-1 up to a 9-9 and everything in between.

This is incorrect. A student who falls off the bottom of the higher paper (4-9, 3 awarded occasionally if a student misses the 4 by literally a few marks) will get a U. Otherwise there would be little point in the foundation paper existing.