Does the human body really need such healthy food?

[miniwh]

As in, 5+ a day veg/some fruits etc

For thousands of years humans weren't able to access that type of varied and balanced diet

You could say we need to move with the times but other mammals are in good health by eating what's always been available to them and nothing else

So surely our bodies are designed for fairly restricted and limited diets?

And I do think a large proportion of that is due to our society's reliance on UPF, and the obesogenic nature of the crap that gets sold to us as 'food'

Torunette, interesting - my DGF always said he and his mates joined up in 1914 in the hope of 3 meals a day .

Had also read that the Irish were highly regarded workers through the industrial revolution due to their strength and stamina largely through a diet of potatoes and milk.

My GGD was brought up in a workhouse/orphanage and signed up for WWI at 14 (lied about his age) because he saw it as an escape.

But I think it is well accepted that the diet of the average poor/working class person deteriorated significantly with industrialisation and the move into cities in the 19th century. Separating people from the source of their food had a detrimental effect.

If you look at history more broadly, most people in most countries have eaten food that was produced relatively locally to where they lived, and highly processed food simply wasn't available. Grains, oats, seasonal fruit and veg, fish if you were near the sea, occasional meat if you had access to it... all unprocessed wholefoods that were largely grown organically.

And the people upthread referring to stews, pease pudding, pottage etc - this was all made with seasonal local veg, oats etc.

I totally agree with the posters on this thread who are saying that we are not thriving on a national diet of ultra processed food. Yes, people are alive. Are they thriving? Not at all. And aside from the many physical conditions others have listed that result from this diet, there is also a clear link between diet and mental health, and god knows we’re not in good shape there as a society. The science of the microbiome is fascinating - we may eat more than we did before but we eat far less variety and that reduces the diversity of our gut microbiome. Something like 90% of the body’s serotonin is produced in the gut - if you have a healthy microbiome. It’s not about 20 portions of fruit and veg - it’s about 20 varieties (including grains, herbs and spices). Also people should really look up what refined seed and vegetable oils do to your body and your mental state. They’re in all processed food.

I can only think that most posters do not grow their own fruit and /or veg.

I am considered a good gardener. I have managed to freeze 3 bags of broad beans, stored potatoes which will last for a couple of months, am eating the runner beans but not enough to freeze, failed leeks this year due to weather, carrots badly attacked by carrot fly, kale good and lasts probably until Feb but how much kale can you eat in a meal, lettuce tomatoes cucumbers about to go over due to cold despite being in an unheated greenhouse. Probably have 3 dozen apples (none of which store well).
There are forageable brambles, hazel nuts. But the nuts are v small and brambles damaged by rain.

It's crazy to think that we ate well from growing crops and foraging years ago. - it was probably a miracle if the cattle/sheep survived a hard winter- what was left of the previous years crops by say, May, they would have been on extremely meagre rations - and that only if there was a group/family of fit people to do all the hard work involved in growing and storing the food. if you were near the coast yes, fishing but a very dangerous thing in winter, but inland, occasional salted fish. I'm sure the local wild life was hunted out after a decade or two.

Then the issue of providing 'payment' to your rich landowner for the privilege of growing you meagre fields. ..........

Yes and no.

The actual evidence pointed to an even higher number, but 5 was felt to be the more attainable, saleable number and it would still have large positive health benefits.

There used to be a support thread on here for those aiming for 10 a day. Because foraging plant matter, plus the odd bit of flame-cooked meat and eggs, is a diet the body runs on really well.

It's crazy to think that we ate well from growing crops and foraging years ago.

What do you think people ate then? Fresh air?

They had to eat something, and highly processed food of the kind we currently eat did not exist.

Bear in mind the population was much lower, so food requirements were also less on a population level.

Also, eating seafood isn't necessarily dangerous. Mussels and cockles etc. (gathered from the beach for free) have been a staple of the coastal diet for poor people the world over.

The most astounding thing is the extremely high % of calories consumed in the UK that come from UPF - this article says 57% but I have often heard two-thirds www.c3health.org/blog/is-ultra-processed-food-why-are-we-eating-so-much/

There is a lot of changes that occur in the body from eating this crap. I can feel the difference in my body when I eat too much of it.

This podcast is often discussed and I found it very interesting - in it UPF is described as not being food at all www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p0c98bfy

(When I said dangerous I was referring to a PP saying that fishing would be dangerous in winter. Not all seafood requires fishing.)

Anglo Saxons were the same average height as people from Britain today. There was still a much higher rate of infant mortality of course, but people did make it to old age.

Wear and tear was different as people lived much more active lives compared to today.

Teeth were generally ok. No sugar and the only sweet things in your diet would be veg, fruit and honey - seasonal. Teeth wore down faster due to grit in bread from the grain grinding process. Handy for use as an indicator of age at death though.

Where I have dug, within 5 miles of the sea, there is evidence of butchery of pigs, the population kept chickens and cows for milk and eggs, oyster shells appear in their tons and muscle shells less frequently (more fragile so may not survive as well). They drank beer, which was safer than water.

And so long as the crops didn't fail food supplies would be ok.

A summer like the one we have just had would be a disaster. Yields are currently 50% down where I live, and that's with the benefit of modern irrigation. I think it is accepted that the quality of diet was better in the Anglo Saxon period than today - the quantity was probably more of an issue.

Industrialization brought about significantly poorer diets for poor people and city dwellers in general. Average heights were significantly less, diseases spread fast, life expectancy reduced. Fortunately today food regulations exist.

But I wonder if it would be sustainable, population size wise, if we were to all eat unprocessed food.

people often do not understand average or %
when it says 10% of women died in childbirth that means it was the cause of death for 10% of women not that 10% of pregnancies ended in maternal death it may have been her fifth pregnancy 90% of women didn't die from childbirth
if you survive the first day of life ( still the riskiest day of your life until you are 100) and then survivng your first month year and to age 5 then 20 your odds of reaching old age increase
the average age of death on the day you were born may have been 30 but by the time you were one it was probably 35-40 and by the time you were 5 it would have been 50ish and once reaching adulthood probably about 60
even old workhouse records for inner cities have loads of people dying at 70-80 when they had been in poverty practically all their lives
if you have 10 people and one dies age 2 and the rest live to 70 the average age of death is 65 but 90% of them live past the average age of death

Had also read that the Irish were highly regarded workers through the industrial revolution due to their strength and stamina largely through a diet of potatoes and milk

I can't remember where I read this, but there was some sort of research or something which showed a diet of potatoes and milk provided all the necessary nutrients for strength and health.

They also grew up without ultraprocessed food. So while their diets might have been more restrictive, they were infinitely healthier than the junk we eat today.

Literally over half of the population is overweight or obese.

Being healthy isn't the norm anymore.

Yes we are better off than the Victorians in inner city slums but that was a historical anomaly.

For most of history the majority of the population were farmers and fisherman with access to high quality food. Yes it wasn't very varied. Yes they didn't eat a lot of meat. But it was much healthier than the slum Victorian or modern diet.

There is a lot of ignorance about the quality of food and what 'counts' or what is UHP.

Eg so many people don't know the difference between fruit juice and a fruit juice drink.

Beans count as one of the 5 a day but I think they aren't as popular recently?

Even the bread we eat is a shadow of the real thing. Eg many people dont realise that seeded loaves are not wholemeal but white bread with dye in it.

Or they will eat a cereal that has fruit on the cover eg high priced granolas etc, not realising it has ridiculously amounts of sugar in it.

I grew up eating lots of home-grown stuff, particularly fruit, but also veg like kale and runner beans, and I've had hayfever since I was 3.

I listened to the Van Tulleken twins podcast about ultra processed food and was driven to switch to making all our food from basics - including bread. I have to say that with modern ooking methods this way of living doesn't have me tied to the kitchen. (I even have recipe books for meals taking under 30 minutes that are cheap to make). We feel heaps better, my grocery bill is way down and I know exactly what is in our food because I put it there.

I recall my mum doing the same thing but that was because it was what people did back then. She made the pastry for pies, she did stews & casseroles with loads of veg (cheaper than meat) and if we were lucky she would make a cake. We very seldom had expensive bought-in food.

I don't know when the switch to buying food readymade happened, but I don't think it's been good for us.

With modern breadmakers, even making bread isn't onerous. 3 minutes of placing ingredients in the breadmaker, and then set the timer. It would take me longer to pop to the shop.

Sugar in whatever form is a major cause of Ill health/death

They also had good social connections, which are important. Loneliness kills.

I easily eat 5 a day, so 400g total of veg and fruit. However I don't always get the variety, and current trends seem to be leaning towards this.

@Hyacinth2 - not all year. But most people would have grown a lot May-November. So topping up diet all summer probably kept vitamin levels at ok stage even if more potatoes, oats, meat, milk in winter. People would pickle lots also like beetroot, cucumbers, radish, make chutneys and jams.

We are overrun with Apples in comparison, we have hundreds on the trees still (3), and have already stored and given away a lot.

There’s also now ( in countryside more) and probably back then a lot of sharing what you have within community. Those with hundreds of apples share out, and receive their share of say plums and tomato’s back in return.

May-October we are probably 95% self sufficient in fruit and veg. Mainly buying bananas and other things we might want.

This also although not much fruit although I can't believe then or now there weren't apples in September pretty much for free. A meal without veg would have been unthinkable even if it was boring cabbage, carrots and peas.

My Grandparents born 1917& 1918 grew tomatoes, gooseberries, black currents, peas and beans always.

The switch happened because modern life is expensive and we can’t have one parents at home cooking from scratch.

We also have 2 or 3 multinationals accounting for almost all of the food that we eat and they are very good at marketing.

Out of interest, how do you have time to cook everything from scratch? Do you work?