Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Chat

Join the discussion and chat with other Mumsnetters about everyday life, relationships and parenting.

Harrowing account of Martha Mill's death at 13 in Guardian today

507 replies

StaplesCorner · 03/09/2022 10:59

I don't think there's another thread on this already I did a search, but I think this needs to be widely read - there seems to have been no lack of NHS resources here whatsoever, but consultants' arrogance by the spade; shades of This is Going to Hurt? Every parents' worst nightmare:

www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2022/sep/03/13-year-old-daughter-dead-in-five-weeks-hospital-mistakes

OP posts:
Passanotherjaffacake · 03/09/2022 21:14

This article was devastating to read, but important. Have sent my DH to read it as he would be so reticent to challenge doctors.

I was recently in hospital for a long period for pregnancy complications where my life and my babies life were in danger. There was no challenging or changing the decisions of a consultant despite some very real concerns. The staffing levels were horrifying and it was all quite traumatic. Midwives were amazing in antenatal but in the end I declined my daily consultant visit as they were awful - totally disengaged and they all contradicted each other. It was so upsetting.

so much love to this girls family and to others in this situation. Xx

Livelovebehappy · 03/09/2022 21:14

I stopped treating doctors like Gods many years ago, when my father was let down and died of cancer after many missed opportunities. I think people should stop being afraid to question decisions made by doctors - this is the problem. Get second opinions and even third opinions if you feel that things are being missed.

Lucyintheskywithrubies · 03/09/2022 21:31

Absolutely horrendous and I cannot imagine.

I also work as a clinical negligence lawyer and I see this type of thing day in day out. As a PP has said if you are concerned and your instinct is off - demand a second opinion, arrange it yourself if you have to.

LetsPlayShadowlands · 03/09/2022 21:41

Devastating. Disgusting. Poor poor girl, poor mother forever tortured. Those responsible won't even lose sleep. Thinking of all involved.

Picoloangel · 03/09/2022 21:41

Many years ago I was told there was nothing wrong with me by a horrible, white, privileged, misogynist of a Consultant. In fact, I had a rare rumour and surgery and radiotherapy followed. His behaviour in the complaints process that followed was arrogant and unapologetic.

This article has upset and preoccupied me all day. How is this still happening? This beautiful girl lost. Her parents and sister distraught. It’s unthinkable and infuriating and heartbreaking.

My DD fractured her arm recently and the sheer negligence and arrogance of the medical staff was breathtaking. The rudeness to me as her mother when all I was asking was why she wasn’t improving and why her arm was still disfigured and swollen. I was dismissed as anxious and demanding. At the eventual face to face appointment which I had to beg for, we were spoken to rudely and unsympathetically; as if we had no right to question.

I am a lawyer. I’m assertive, self advocating and confident. I was spoken to as if I was an overly anxious and bothersome annoyance. How parents they perceive as less assertive are treated is anyone’s guess. The fact is though that we should be treated the same; with compassion and respect. .

This dreadful story is going to stay with me for a long, long time. The medical staff should be ashamed but something tells me they won’t be. Doctors may only be human but they have the power of gods.

iRun2eatCake · 03/09/2022 21:45

StolenWillowTree · 03/09/2022 13:28

The arrogance of doctors is astounding, and it's drilled into them right from the start.

I recently saw my GP for something minor, and there happened to be a medical student sitting in. GP (knowing I'm from a medical background myself) asked if it was okay if medical student asked me some questions as practice for him. I used a couple of very basic medical terms and the medical student very condescendingly asked "who told you those words? Can you tell me what you think they mean"?

Arrogant pipsqueak.

How bloody rude!! What did you say? Did your GP step in?

TalbotAMan · 03/09/2022 21:50

Being somewhat legal, my first thought at the end of that was that several of those doctors should be prosecuted for manslaughter, or at the very least put before a GMC disciplinary panel.

Silvercurtains · 03/09/2022 21:51

It was a tough read and my heart ached for the author.
I suffered from a mental illness four years ago which caused me awful physical symptoms. I was grieving my father, coming out of an abusive relationship, homeless, cancer scare etc, all within a few months of each other.
Luckily I got private healthcare through my work but the first consultant (Scottish) I saw repeatedly claimed all my mental and physical problems were caused by migraines which I knew wasn’t the case.
I demanded to see a second doctor and the second consultant (German) I saw was much more understanding and helpful and explained what was happening to my brain and how that was affecting my body. Neurologists in Germany have to work for a year in mental health before they can graduate, and British neurologists don’t, so they’re often more knowledgeable about how mental health problems can physically affect a person than their British colleagues.
The first had me on the wrong medication (which he gradually increased to the highest dosage when I wasn’t getting better) and it was making me worse.
I was in hell and the German consultant may have saved my life. He immediately changed my medication and referred me to the right person for help. It took me 10 months to get better but seeing a doctor who knew what he was talking about was the turning corner of my recovery.

frozenorangejuice · 03/09/2022 21:52

Has anyone else found that if medical staff hear you using medical terms in conversation with them that it really gets their backs up? It’s like they’re gatekeepers of some sacred information and not a reasonably intelligent human.

StolenWillowTree · 03/09/2022 21:52

Yes, when things go wrong they cover up.

My aunt (who had profound intellectual disability and couldn't communicate, but was physically very healthy and lived to 60 without needing any form of medical care) was in hospital recovering from a knee replacement, and she suddenly died. Nurse casually mentioned "we kept giving her more and more of her epilepsy medication, but she just kept having seizures." My aunt did not have epilepsy! When this was pointed out, the nurse went white as a sheet. They'd clearly mixed her up with another patient who did have epilepsy.

When my mother died, her abusive ex-boyfriend pretended to be her next of kin and demanded they not resuscitate or give her any medical care by lying that she had a DNR. I can't blame them because I guess hospitals have to take on faith that someone claiming to be next of kin actually was, but when I - as her actual next of kin - tried to find out what had happened, it took six months of basically constant badgering and eventually going to the Ombudsman before PALS would even speak to me. PALS just closed ranks and refused to answer the phone or reply to emails or voicemails.

When I was young I had my (massively inflamed and cratered) tonsils removed, was sent home with a type of painkiller I was allergic to and an MRSA infection in the wound no one had noticed. Ended up having to be rushed to hospital in an ambulance so dehydrated I would have died that night if not put on a drip, where I was treated like a naughty child who had just been very lazy and naughty in refusing to drink water when I physically couldn't swallow and kept vomiting. I did everything right, went to the chemist and spoke to my GP, things started to get really bad on a Friday evening after GP and everywhere was shut, and by Sunday evening with nothing open except hospital I'd gone blind and couldn't stop vomiting tar-like stuff. If it'd been a weekday I would have called my GP, if I'd had any option at all except 999 I would have taken it! And to top it off they tried to force me to take the same painkiller, and no one even examined me, just put me on a drip. They also dumped me on the street in my pyjamas with no money or phone at 7am the next morning, and I had to get a bus and beg the bus driver to let me on for free just so I could get home. And then I had to make an emergency appointment with my GP so I could finally, finally get antibiotics to clear up the infected throat wound, since A&E didn't think there was any point looking at the throat of someone who had just had bloody throat surgery.

Even recently, I went to see a neurologist and all his questions were blatantly designed to catch me in some agenda, and nothing to do with my actual symptoms or trying to treat me. He asked me loads of intrusive and inappropriate questions about my income and whether I was on disability benefit or trying to apply for disability benefit, clearly his first thought was whether I was scamming to fake benefits; then loads of questions about my job and sick leave and how many sick notes I'd asked for (I'm the boss, I can take whatever leave I like and never need a sick note); then finally changed tack and asked if I had any history of mental illness and when I said yes he got a big self-satisfied smile and sat back and told me very confidently that I had a psychosomatic disorder and needed to be treated by a psychiatrist. No tests, not

Oh and this was following a major head injury, where I was unconscious for more than 30 minutes. That's the whole reason I was there.

Paid to see a private neurologist who was a dream and correctly diagnosed and treated within one appointment.

Sorry, that was a lot. I have had and my family have had wonderful experiences with the NHS and individual doctors and nurses too, but it's the bad ones that stick out. Not for the poor treatment so much as for the lies and failure to take responsibility.

frozenorangejuice · 03/09/2022 21:53

Sorry @StolenWillowTree - cross posted! That medical student sounds incredibly rude.

takemetomybeach · 03/09/2022 22:05

A nurse overriding a consultant saved my life, once. My kidneys were failing - fast - but the consultant said - to my face - "stop being so dramatic. I have the medical degree - not you". If it hadn't have been for that nurse, I would be dead.

We need people to stand up for other people. Regardless of level and hierarchy and pay.

RIP Martha. I had a cry and cuddled my little boy after reading this story. To Martha's mum - I am just so sorry.

Lisad1231981 · 03/09/2022 22:21

I read this earlier too. It's heart breaking. I don't trust doctors to always be right. I had to take my daughter back 4 times before they would listen to me, kept saying it was viral. She had pneumonia, ended up in hospital for a week. A simple x ray would have shown this if they listened.
They also missed my husbands cancer, for a year!! again a blood test would have shown it had they listened. As it happened they still only found it by mistake because they were testing for celiacs and his white cells were 30 times what they should be!
I tell myself that I would rather be wrong and be pushing, than not ask and regret it forever.

Bunnycat101 · 03/09/2022 22:40

There are many brilliant and wonderful staff but there are clearly institutional issues with candour. You only need one aspect of the system to fall down to create risk.

My baby had a raging fever and wasn’t right. I called 111 and they wanted her seen asap. Our gp stayed open late to check her. Her heart rate was through the roof and he sent her to A&E immediately as a red flag sepsis risk. The junior doctor in paeds sent us home saying it was viral and she was fine. I wasn’t happy and went back to A&E the next morning. I bumped into the junior dr on the way in and she was incredibly patronising - think ‘oh I’m surprised to see you again- still a bit worried are we…’

While we were there she went blue, projectile vomited everywhere and started convulsing and the drs came running. A raging kidney infection had been missed. I feel incredibly lucky that I went back.

HappyBinosaur · 03/09/2022 22:44

I have just sobbed my way through that article. The poor girl must have been so scared. It’s one of the most shocking and heartbreaking medical stories I’ve ever read :-(

frozenorangejuice · 03/09/2022 22:46

Lisad1231981 · 03/09/2022 22:21

I read this earlier too. It's heart breaking. I don't trust doctors to always be right. I had to take my daughter back 4 times before they would listen to me, kept saying it was viral. She had pneumonia, ended up in hospital for a week. A simple x ray would have shown this if they listened.
They also missed my husbands cancer, for a year!! again a blood test would have shown it had they listened. As it happened they still only found it by mistake because they were testing for celiacs and his white cells were 30 times what they should be!
I tell myself that I would rather be wrong and be pushing, than not ask and regret it forever.

Exactly the same happened with my DS. I went to A&E every day for three days as he had viral wheeze symptoms that were not being relieved at all - he was eventually admitted and was diagnosed with pneumonia. We stayed in for a week. The absolute bloody cheek of the doctor who referred me to a leaflet re viral wheeze when I’ve been in hospital with my son around 30 times since he was 6 months old. I knew he was very unwell.

TheNefariousOrange · 03/09/2022 22:47

I couldn't finish this; it is too harrowing. My heart absolutely breaks for this family. That poor little girl.

I've had two instances where misdiagnosis put me in a precarious position. Once when I started hemorrhaging (vaginally) and had extreme pain and they told me it was just a bad period, despite me explaining that i can't be having a period because I'm pregnant. They did no tests to see if i was miscarrying and 3 hours later I had lost consciousness on a Boots floor and needed a blood transfusion. The second when I went into hospital with the worst pain of my life and vomiting only to be told it was stomach flu. If they'd bothered to ask or check my notes, they'd have found out that I am a runner and so my heart rate was not normal for me. They'd failed to tell me that my liver function test was very slightly abnormal. Within 24 hours I was back in and my liver function had dropped dramatically.

QuebecBagnet · 03/09/2022 22:47

frozenorangejuice · 03/09/2022 21:52

Has anyone else found that if medical staff hear you using medical terms in conversation with them that it really gets their backs up? It’s like they’re gatekeepers of some sacred information and not a reasonably intelligent human.

You should try taking in print offs of various academic journal articles you’ve got related to your obscure condition with highlighted sections so you can discuss treatment plans with your consultant. Goes down like a bucket of sick. 😂

goldfinchonthelawn · 03/09/2022 22:54

frozenorangejuice · 03/09/2022 21:52

Has anyone else found that if medical staff hear you using medical terms in conversation with them that it really gets their backs up? It’s like they’re gatekeepers of some sacred information and not a reasonably intelligent human.

I used to get this all the time with DS1 as I knew his illnesses better than they did. I was constantly asked: 'Are you medical?' because I knew how to explain his vast range of complex illnesses succinctly. One doctor couldn't believe a mere mortal be so clued up. He kept asking me to explain how I knew what I was talking about and didn't like it when I told him I had an English degree which trained me to be clear and concise and the Greek & Latin terminology didn't phase me because I'd studied etymology.

Wallabyone · 03/09/2022 22:55

What a shocking and deeply upsetting article. I have just sobbed reading it; her mother sounds incredible and she needs to realise it isn't her fault. Dealing with Messi al staff and the whole establishment of the NHS is like banging your head against a brick wall sometimes...when it's good it's brilliant, but when it's bad, it's horrendous.
Rest in peace Martha ❤️

frozenorangejuice · 03/09/2022 22:56

QuebecBagnet · 03/09/2022 22:47

You should try taking in print offs of various academic journal articles you’ve got related to your obscure condition with highlighted sections so you can discuss treatment plans with your consultant. Goes down like a bucket of sick. 😂

Ha! I bet it does! I work in health but as an allied professional. I am not medically trained but I know a few things about a few things. The number of times I have been asked ‘Oh, are you one of us, Mum?’, like I’m not allowed to be knowledgeable about my child’s health condition. Totally bizarre. Thankfully I have met some wonderful consultants who are keen to actually work with you and treat you like what you are - the expert on your own child.

goldfinchonthelawn · 03/09/2022 23:01

LetsPlayShadowlands · 03/09/2022 21:41

Devastating. Disgusting. Poor poor girl, poor mother forever tortured. Those responsible won't even lose sleep. Thinking of all involved.

It is heartbreaking that she blames herself. That she feels she failed her daughter by not kicking up enough of a fuss. She shouldn't have had to. She shouldn't ever have been put in a position where her observations of her daughter's needs were more perceptive that those of the numerous medics and specialists around her.

PlumsInTheIcebox · 03/09/2022 23:11

I have a Martha of a similar age. It was an almost unbearable read and I am in awe of Merope’s courage in sharing her story.

I wonder if they considered naming names. The Guardian has good lawyers.

PlumsInTheIcebox · 03/09/2022 23:13

frozenorangejuice · 03/09/2022 22:56

Ha! I bet it does! I work in health but as an allied professional. I am not medically trained but I know a few things about a few things. The number of times I have been asked ‘Oh, are you one of us, Mum?’, like I’m not allowed to be knowledgeable about my child’s health condition. Totally bizarre. Thankfully I have met some wonderful consultants who are keen to actually work with you and treat you like what you are - the expert on your own child.

Oh yes, I have had this too, for using such impenetrable specialist medical vocabulary as … ‘abdomen’.

LostThePot · 03/09/2022 23:17

Heartbreaking