I envy people who have Faith

[BlueBloodedBlue]

I don't but it must be a real comfort to believe in a higher power and have something that gives a meaning to everything.

That's it really.

@sammylady37
...religious people can’t just practice quietly themselves, they do tend to want to impose on others and think they know best.
I found this part offensive, it's all subjective.

Sincere apologies for any offence, it really wasn’t intended and I’d never prayer bomb a general atheist thread- it was specifically in the context of a thread on envying those with faith and whether having it is a choice.
Sorry again.

@pointythings You seem to have missed my point. I wasn't mocking those beliefs, I was saying that it's ironic for someone to laugh at a belief in God while they themselves have belief in things that are equally or even more unlikely to be true.

Well it was referencing a point made earlier in the thread and the praying poster had proven that point quite nicely IMO 🤷‍♀️

But indeed, offence is quite subjective.

I must confess that with all that’s going on in the world a firm faith in human goodness takes some believing.

It certainly does!

@Vincitveritas some atheists believe in astrology etc. Many do not. So if you would kindly insert the word 'some' into your proclamations about what atheists believe, that would be helpful.

@Malie Richard Dawkins believes what he believes. Doesn't mean all atheists believe that. Again, don't generalise.

I must confess that with all that’s going on in the world a firm faith in human goodness takes some believing.

I find it quite easy. I see it every day. Yes, the world is a tough place - but I believe it's a small malevolent minority who have the power that make it so. Most human beings are imperfect but good.

@pointythings No problem and I also don't think atheists believe any old rubbish.

So what makes the world a tough place?

Where's my joy and peace then @Etinoxaurus ? I was told by a priest I had committed a mortal sin and would never forgive myself. I was excommunicated from the Catholic church, no longer allowed to take part in communion etc because I had an abortion. I have never been back to church. I was bought up a Catholic and the indoctrination was so strong that I cannot shake it. Where's my peace? I've been condemned to Hell by religion. I've always

tried to do my best.

So what makes the world a tough place?

So many things.

Selfishness - the 'I'm alright Jack' mentality so beloved of capitalists who believe that if people are poor it's their own fault for not working hard.

Self-righteousness - the belief that there is only one way of living a good and moral life, and it's yours. This is the path that leads parents to disavow their children for being gay, for instance.

Greed - the need to to accumulate millions that you will never spend, whilst others go without.

Nationalism - the belief that your country and its ways are best and all others are worse, and this is a reason to look down on other people. At worst it leads to things like Brexit and the invasion of Ukraine (and yes, these are different orders of magnitude).

Ignorance - of the wilful kind that means people don't want to learn because it challenges their world view. Climate change denial is an example, environmental damage is the consequence.

All these things and many others, perpetrated and perpetuated by human beings in power, are incredibly damaging and make this world a tough place to live.

On an every day basis on the other hand I see little acts of kindness - I co-facilitate a support group for relatives of people in addiction. I pass on what I've learned from my own dreadful experiences and see people become stronger and happier. It can be even smaller - a compliment to a stranger, picking up something another person has dropped or holding a door, paying for someone's coffee when they're a few quid short, helping a neighbour. There's so much of this, it just doesn't seem to exist in the spaces where the powerful live.

@MrsMcisaCt that's a prime example of the kind of damage done by organised religion. It's that which I have a problem with. Individual faith is one thing, but organised religion does so many things which are malign.

@MrsMcisaCt That priest was wrong. It gets into technicalities I don’t understand or respect but you’re not excommunicated (whatever that means) and if it’d help and you could forgive a church which has been very cruel to you (or at least one stupid man) you’d be welcome back.

organised religion does so many things which are malign.

I definitely agree with you on that pointythings.

@MrsMcisaCt I'm very sorry to hear of your experience. No human being has the right to pass judgement on another. It was not that Priest's place to dictate whether or not you, or anyone else, is forgiven. He needs to revisit the scriptures - I would start with, "Do not judge or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?".

I find myself so confused with this. I want to have faith as I've seen a lot of older relatives who are strong believers seek comfort and strength from their faith and would love to be able to do this too. I've asked these relatives why do such awful things happen when there is meant to be this loving God. How can a child being murdered or getting a terminal illness be 'part of God's plan' or happen for a reason? They told me sometimes evil forces/the devil takes over and is stronger than God.

The only thing which convinces me that there is such a thing is when a few years ago I was on a coach tour in Ireland. We stopped at a popular chapel and when I went inside, I felt an overwhelming feeling of peace go through me. I felt amazing and so relaxed. Back on the coach, we were told that many people report an overwhelming feeling of peace when they go inside the chapel, and others on the tour commented they too had felt it.

I would love to have faith during hard times, however instead, I can't help but feel angry that I am going through this hard time.

You mean human nature

@Malie I mean the dark side of human nature. It doesn't in any way outweigh the bright side. We are all imperfect, but I firmly believe we are more good than bad.

Exactly. But if we are all more good than bad why is the world like it is?

@Malie because when bad gets organised the effects are multiplied. This is why I have no beef with people of faith (except when as individuals they behave badly) but lots of beef with organised religion (because it has power and wields it over people who are not of that faith by influencing politics).

Why then has atheistic Marxism been responsible for an estimated 100 million deaths?

@Malie it's always that one the theists come out with. Tell me which nations you are referring to and I will see what I can do.

Generally agreed figure by historians. Probably conservative

But it's not God or Jesus who say that being gay is a sin. It's human beings trying to enforce their personal feelings about homosexuality and using the church as an excuse. Jesus didn't mention homosexuality once and you have to think that if it really was the big deal that some clergy seem to think it is (looking at you vicar with your selfish attitude and putting yourself before God) then you have to think that Jesus would have said something. What He talked about was loving your neighbour, treating people properly and loving God.
Next time someone tells your kids they're sinful, ask them what Jesus would think of their attitude!

God forgives you. That's all that matters. Sod what the priest says. The Catholic Church (and to be the CofE) has committed enough sins of its own. Go back to your bible and see what Jesus said. It's His word that counts.