Are second homes and short-term rental properties immoral?

[maranella]

We have a huge shortage of housing in this country and there and more and more stories about seaside towns and pretty villages being hollowed out by homes that stand empty half the year.

So I'm just wondering how other people feel about second homes and ones bought specifically to be holiday rentals? I really feel for people in places like Cornwall, Devon, north Norfolk, parts of Wales and the Lake District, who can't find affordable homes in the towns and villages where they've always lived and worked.

@Bumpitybumper that's a very different area to where I am - holiday let standard here is to stop off at last major city, do a huge food shop at Tesco and then drive for another three hours.

food waste is then disposed of at holiday home, people don’t want to travel back with half packets of bacon, half a loaf, couple of pints of milk. It all goes into grey waste. 3 days later rinse and repeat. the waste is disproportionate to a standard residential home.

Second home owners not eco home owners!!

I think there is a place for it and many areas mentioned benefit economically by the extra tourists it brings

bur obviously there are negative impacts when local people can no longer live locally, school and public services close down etc. the number of holiday lets operating in certain areas should be strictly controlled, perhaps via a licensing scheme.

Let’s just drop this nonsense about areas unable to exist without the tourist £, most of tourist money goes straight out of the local area - and as mentioned most of them do not contribute to local taxes. Businesses would profit as much from having local patronage all year around and some tourism over peak seasons - they would bring even more money to the area if they used serviced accommodation rather than a family home.
I am fortunate to live somewhere that tourists pay to come and stay, and my home is secure, but I work in the community and with homeless families and it’s heartbreaking to see them evicted so greedy owners can turn their home into a holiday let. Their children have school and friends here, friends and wider family live here to support them, the parents have jobs here (but earn nowhere near enough to pay the inflated house prices), even renting is sky high - according to a previous holiday home owning poster, who I agree appears to have no soul, they are to blame themselves and should move to Hartlepool - uproot their children and leave their jobs and move? That just demonstrates the mindset of a holiday home owner who views people as a commodity. Let’s hope they never fall on hardship and find themselves and their children living in a tent, yes a fucking tent so that their home can be turned into a holiday home.
I long for the day greedy holiday home owners get bit on the arse - and it’s coming - I can’t wait. Bookings already down in my area, owners moaning about the state their guests leave their home - after all paying £2k a week I guess their view is they can do what they want…. Guests leaving the heating on full and lights on all day long when they are out. Guests leaving the keys on top of the key safes instead of inside. Guests ensuring the place is left dirty and full of sand for the cleaner……
Tourism yes, mass tourism stripping the life out of communities - no.

I wish there were more people like you.

Also - awesome user name!

I think what is immoral is the lack of control and regulation.

People will always look for opportunities to profit within permitted limits, we need government to control the sector.

I think planning permission for change of use so that numbers of holiday homes can be controlled and consideration can be given to suitability. Plus requirements to have suitable facilities and services, no abuse of residents parking schemes, no avoiding paying for bin collections etc. I would apply higher rates of council tax to holiday homes and higher rates of capital gains tax too.

I think people who use holiday homes need to start to take more responsibility too. Let's stop accepting the appalling lack of service and "rules" clearly designed to facilitate a landlord evading council or management company rules/charges. If you find a place has rules like not using the wheelie bin or pretending that you are visiting family if asked by neighbours or some of the other dodgy stuff posted about on here it needs to be reflected in reviews and reports.

It’s not just holiday areas, though, is it? As a pp said, many people who grew up in London are priced out of their home areas, even what used to be relatively cheap ones. If anyone had told me, say 30 years ago, that a 2 bed flat in Tooting would sell for half a million plus, I’d have laughed in their face.

Not me, I prefer to support the local economy and stay in hotels, pubs, bed and breakfasts or guest houses.

There are loads of lovely places where you don't have to spend half your holiday cleaning and worrying about losing deposits or getting bad reviews due to breaching some petty rule. Most of them offer a fabulous breakfast, regular cleaning, change your towels and empty the bins plus you can stay for whatever period you like, no need to book a complete week starting on a set day of the week.

I think what is immoral is the lack of control and regulation.
People will always look for opportunities to profit within permitted limits, we need government to control the sector.

This is clearly the answer and given the acute housing shortage in so many areas I'm quite angry that more isn't being done to discourage second homes and Airbnb-type lettings. I do think Airbnb has a lot to answer for and it's pretty easy when you go through the listings for a destination to see which properties could be people's homes and which are in a converted barn or outbuilding (which I don't have a problem with).

I agree with crazy London prices too. I remember an entire new block of flats at Battersea had been bought up by foreign investors, which is just disgraceful when so many Londoners can't get on the property ladder. But that kind of thing has kept London 'booming' for years, so the various governments (and I include Labour), have just allowed it to continue, and so we build and build and build all over our lovely country to keep providing investment properties and second homes and holiday lets. It's disgusting.

I’m currently in a flat on holiday. We can’t stay in hotels (food allergies). But also when your children get past a certain age they don’t want to share with you, DD needs some privacy now.

I was saying to DH how there are lots of lovely parts of this county which have had no investment for years. Maybe if they had done everyone wouldn’t all descend on the same places.

This, in buckets.
I have lived in a beautiful Victorian building split into 6 flats with my family for 21 years. Our previous Landlady sold to an out-of-country company earlier this year, and within weeks, we were all given section 21's, they wanted to remodel the flats and turn them into holiday lets. So that's 6 households who had to suddenly find new homes. One luckily was offered accommodation by his employer, one had to move back home with her parents, one sadly died shortly after receiving his section 21.

The market here is crazy - absolutely nothing affordable and very rarely come on the market anyway, so my family and 2 other tenants are still here, hoping desperately that something comes up.
As I type this, I am listening to builders in the empty flats around me bash, saw, drill and god knows what else to squeeze in extra bedrooms, smaller kitchens and to make them more desirable to the holiday market.

As I said, that's 6 households that have to find alternative accommodation, 2 of which work in the Tourism industry, that will more than likely end up miles out of the area, without their family, support network, easy access to work etc. So yes, in my personal opinion, it is immoral.

If someone gifted you a house, bet you wouldn't turn it down on the basis that it's immoral. Or would you sell it for a price less than the market value to a low wage first time buyer and then give the proceeds to charity?

Someone just has - my parents died and left their home (in a holiday area) to me and my sister. We instructed the estate agent to only sell to a local who was going to live in it. Now obviously anyone could lie. But bingo! The couple are about to move in having downsized from a house in a neighbouring town. Don't judge everyone by your own moral compass!

I might add I know plenty of other people who have done this in our little corner of Cornwall

No its not immoral. The idea that the state should govern what people own is terrifying.

That said, there are insufficent protections in place (including rent protections) for pricate tenants.

I'm sure lots of people born and bred in London feel sore that they have been priced out of the market.

People in Devon and Cornwall should be lobbying their MP's so that they become enterprise zones etc attracting employment opportunities rather than bemoaning house prices which have gone up everywhere. I live in a popular city for relocating london professionals. House prices have skyrocketed as they historically had bigger deposits. But my local authority took advatage of this and introduced lots of science parks etc. it is now a massive hub for professional services with lots of employment opportunities for people born and bred here.

The idea that the state should govern what people own is terrifying.

This is such a non-argument. The government already restricts what we can own and what we can do with said possessions in so many ways. There's no reason at all they couldn't crack down on second home ownership.

We do lobby our MPs @crowdedout
We really do.

But all Tory and all tone deaf. They really seem not to give a monkeys. But as you'll no doubt point out, plenty vote for them!

Bet you're not donating your share of cash though are you. You're profiting from the good fortune of essentially a 2nd home (loss aside, obviously). So you're no different in that regard.

Oh give over @OhMerde

1. 350k is going to the Stroke Assoc (yes really)
2. True the rest is going to our DC
3. Why should I be any more noble?.

Second homes in areas already swamped by them are bad news. Full stop. I haven't at any point said they should be limited or made illegal. But just accept that fact

I did exactly that. I had a buy to let in a very trendy part of SE Cornwall which I sold to the existing tenant at a lower price than an offer I had from someone wanting it as a second home / holiday.

OK to be honest it wasn't much lower (c £10k) and if the differential was more like £100k then I would have had to seriously reconsider.

Tbh I wouldn't object to seeing homes half so much if they all
Pais council tax on them. It is possible to volunteer to do so (I know someone who has). And the final straw was their raking in if covid grants. Now THAT was immoral and widespread!

My friend has just bought a second home that they plan to use themselves and as a holiday let. It was on the market for almost 2 years and was empty for most of that time. I don't think they've been immoral, they're using it as a business opportunity and I hope it works out for them.

OK to be honest it wasn't much lower (c £10k) and if the differential was more like £100k then I would have had to seriously reconsider.

🤣

Unfortunately a lot of the MPs and councillors own holiday homes….

What annoys me is that our council, to make cut needed due to paying out covid grants - millions of which went to holiday home owners - have cut back on childrens services.

And holiday home owners didn’t lose money over covid - they hiked up their prices and had a bumper year as well as getting the covid grant. They should be audited to see if they actually made any loss and be made to return that grant if now.

@Secondhomeownerskillcommunities holiday let owners did have to declare the grant as tax and some was clawed back. And those who profiteered have I think ended up with egg on ace because bookings are def down this year
You're bang on about councillors and MPs and their friends. Honestly the people of Cornwall are excellent at voting to shoot themselves in the foot!