Are second homes and short-term rental properties immoral?

[maranella]

We have a huge shortage of housing in this country and there and more and more stories about seaside towns and pretty villages being hollowed out by homes that stand empty half the year.

So I'm just wondering how other people feel about second homes and ones bought specifically to be holiday rentals? I really feel for people in places like Cornwall, Devon, north Norfolk, parts of Wales and the Lake District, who can't find affordable homes in the towns and villages where they've always lived and worked.

Just a reminder that some Airbnb's are private annexes in gardens and not depriving the housing stock.

I do think the government needs to look at the issue & come up with a plan.

It's nice for people to live where their roots are but unrealistic for many & an allowance to born residents would be unfair to everyone else. I am conscious of the community impact of holiday homes, however I love using air bnb places & really not keen on hotels.

I think it's a shift in thinking generally & there will be a natural change in demand if that's what more people want. If it's a viable business idea, someone will always invest). We're looking at potentially investing in a property to air bnb, (no other investments & I have no pension as low earner SE).

Would likely be less popular coastal area but large enough for 2-4 families for air bnb. It would be local to us, (half an hour away) & we'd love to use it in winter if it was free. Right now, this area has plenty of land to build on near these areas if needed. I don't know if that makes our consideration less bad. I think global warming will contribute to more UK holidays so policy makers need to look at a bigger picture to make the least bad option

Yes they are immoral. I normally holiday in the UK but never stay in a holiday property and only use spare-room Airbnb or hotels, campsites etc.

Cornwall has been hollowed out.

Which is what I believe the original ethos of air bnb was, not letting out whole homes.
i am wondering (hoping) how the energy prices are going to impact holiday lets, as I should think with the prices holidaymakers are paying to stay there, they are not going to stint on light, heat, appliances etc.

@buckeejit sorry to randomly stick my oar in, but just wondering if have you properly the explored alternative investments in things like stocks and shares? I think a lot of people love the idea of investment property like this because the can use it as well as make money from it, but a good portfolio could be lower risk and lower effort and you could spend money you make on it on holidaying in all sorts of winter locations. The cost of living/inflation crisis could hit long enough and hard enough in UK that even staycations become out of a lot of people’s reach, so a less popular seaside location is not necessarily low risk, especially if you’re property is located in an area at high risk of flood or fire over the next 10 years.

@RoundandRound123 borvat all-thanks for your input-both dh & myself have some knowledge of the stock market from working in the industry but not keen currently/not confident enough to invest directly & funds are less appealing.

We'd only buy somewhere that's fairly low risk of flooding etc No real interest in holidaying anywhere abroad. We're in NI & surrounded by lovely places- we wouldn't buy somewhere without good links for visitors to appeal & either space around the property or a sea/countryside view, but everything is still a risk. The most valuable information when investing is future hindsight

We thought long and hard about this last year when I inherited some money and we toyed with buying a little bolt hole in a place further down the coast from us.

In the end I couldn't square it with my conscience. Obviously people need rental options so I'm not against second property ownership providing it's available for long term rental not holiday lets.

We live in a fairly touristy area ourselves and can see the damage empty properties and holiday lets do to the community. It's depressing.

@buckeejit well I imagine NI is probably a good bet in the UK for property investment, it is fairly undervalued and NI economy is doing the best of the four nations.

If a property wasn't part of the housing stock before (restored from derelict or converted from a barn or something), then fine, use it as a holiday home/let.

Just don't take existing homes from the housing pool.

And then all of the Emmets can whinge that all of the pubs and restaurants are shut because the waiting staff have taken up your suggestion to move to Hartlepool.

I can only hope that the sex pond fad will wane.

Totally immoral. Someone I know told us happily they had managed to buy the very last house in a popular holiday village that was owned by a resident, after he died. I was pretty appalled.

This is a major reason tourist spots can not hire enough staff. My nephew used to work in hospitality. He and the rest of my family have moved to cheaper places and the tourist place they grew up in is struggling to get staff.

In the English Lake District a Local Occupancy Clause limits the purchase of a property to those who have an established connection to the local area.
It's not perfect but means suitable family homes are rarely available as investments for absent owners.
I find it incredible that Cornwall does not have similar? I thought I had heard that some places (St Ives?) had instigated this?

I don’t think it’s immoral, no, safer investment than stocks & shares.

One of the areas you mentioned, North Norfolk, the property is very expensive and quite a few properties on that coast have covenants that purchasers have to have lived or worked in Norfolk for 3 years.

The lack of availability of rentals is because so many landlords have sold up.

@Dobbysgotthesocks
*Ok then @Bumpitybumper I will shut down my care business which I barely make a living from because I live in a tourist area. And then what happens to my clients???

There's no space or money for them to go into care home nor do they want to. They want to live out their days in their homes!
There are no carers it's impossible getting help with care because nobody can afford to do it anymore.
So I now loose my home so it can be turned into an Airbnb or the likes and what my clients get left to rot? Because that's what's going to end up happening! All so some greedy so and so can have a weeks holiday!!!*
I think under anyone's definition you would count as a key worker and therefore someone that I believe should receive some help to stay in the local area. My posts have consistently said this so don't know why you have suggested otherwise?

@DdraigGoch and @antelopevalley if house prices genuinely do rise to the level that there aren't enough people to do the low paid work the tourism sector requires then the area will lose many of its tourist attractions and facilities and demand for holidays there will lessen. This will cause a fall in demand for holiday lets/second homes and owners will put their houses up for sale. The houses will no longer be such an attractive investment for other prospective holiday let owners and thus there will be no additional demand@maranella to fuel house prices.

Sorry, to randomly tag @maranella. Not sure what happened there

My gripe is the government allowing wealthy foreigners to buy whatever they want when they have incomes that hardly anyone has here so can literally pay whatever is asked is immoral. It still affects house prices in a negative way. Many countries have rules around this to avoid locals being affected. But as long as pockets are lined...

@Bumpitybumper yes but as said previously if demand falls and holiday home owners put their houses up for sale, they’re not going to want to make huge losses where they’ve paid 100k over asking price (about 50% over asking price in my area has been the standard). No one wants to move as supporting services have gone so the area dies off.

@buddhasbelly
yes but as said previously if demand falls and holiday home owners put their houses up for sale, they’re not going to want to make huge losses where they’ve paid 100k over asking price (about 50% over asking price in my area has been the standard). No one wants to move as supporting services have gone so the area dies off
They won't want to make big losses of course but equally investors won't want to tie up capital in a house that costs money to own and run if they can't let it out to tourists. Most will cut their losses if they feel there is no realistic prospect of house prices recovering in the short to medium term and the business of holiday lets isn't viable. Look at what BTL landlords are doing right now, this shows how investors will sell houses and look for alternative investments if their current model no longer works.

I have always agreed that supporting services and local infrastructure should be maintained in these places to serve the local population and tourists. It just makes sense for everyone to keep it going.

But the infrastructure can’t be supported with undue numbers of holiday lets.

for example the area I’m in has a geographically dispersed population; it is not financially viable to collect food waste separately from residential homes. So it goes to landfill. Or residential units compost.

with holiday lets, in particular short term lets, far more food waste is being produced than a standard residential home. The council have to spend more of the budget getting this waste disposed of.

so not only is that a financial drain it’s also crap for the environment.

our spend on waste disposal is disproportionate to the population.

Holiday lets and maintaining infrastructure don’t work in tandem.

I’m not sure how you can agree that services should be maintained for the resident population and tourists yet support holiday lets.

Youve said above that holiday let investors will sell if the market conditions are no longer favourable and there isn’t the supporting infrastructure to sustain tourist demand. Even if holiday let investors sell if demand is no longer there, the infrastructure has already been gutted (as a result of the many, many holiday lets).

@buddhasbelly I live in a non geographically dispersed area that is quite highly populated and we don't have a separate food waste collection run by the council. I don't see my area as lacking the infrastructure required to live here. We also have holiday homes here and I don't see them creating a disproportionate amount of good waste. If anything, lots of people seem to eat out a lot and have less meals at home than a normal household. Add to that the fact that these houses aren't used all the time and this aren't generating waste when vacant then it can be argued they actually create a lot less waste for the council to dispose of.

It is totally possible to have holiday lets and maintain local services. In fact tourism can provide vital money and visitors to keep ammeneties and facilities going that could not survive if they relied solely on the local population. As mentioned upthread, many of these areas are deprived and rely heavily on government subsidies. The areas actually probably wouldn't survive at all if they did not receive additional government money. People talk as if the areas would be just fine if the locals could just live in the houses and not concern themselves with tourists. The reality is very different and many of the communities are simply not economically viable irrespective of holiday/second homes.

Holiday lets often have private bin collections. Which they pay for. On the basis they may have council tax relief. Local letting companies in our village organise a private collection on changeover days.
Pretty sure the eco d home owners just put their bins out for council collection regardless of whether they're paying council tax or not. Another reason why I can stomach one but not the other!