Can I talk a situation over with you & will you tell me what you would do?

[ColinRobinsonsfamiliar]

Older relative, 82.
Extremely hard worker all his life, own business, very very comfortable.
Sold everything on retirement and moved abroad with his wife.
Long term rented an apartment, lived very happily for 20 years abroad.

Rewind, had a wife, 3 young kids, met a woman at one of his businesses. She abandoned her 3 small kids, he abandoned his 3 kids and they moved in together. Neither bothered with their previous families at all, contact, financially, nothing.
He and new women married, had another child.

Both extremely driven, built up the business, workaholics.
New child pretty much abandoned but had money, gifts, whatever their heart desired they got. Very privileged (but emotionally neglected) childhood.
As an adult, arrested,drugs, theft etc. Served in prison. Never had a job. Provided for 100% by parents way into 20”s, 30”s, 40”s. Moved abroad with parents.

Oldest child of elderly male relative (from 1st marriage) built up a lovely relationship with his dad as an adult. Visited him abroad many times, got on well.

Fast forward to now. Elderly relative is now penniless and homeless due to son (2nd marriage) taking every last penny to fund drugs, fruitless and useless business plans which all went nowhere very quickly.
His wife died of cancer 5 years ago, son refused to help and showed no interest in his mother while unwell, dying, end of life.

So son from 1st marriage has paid airfare for both to come back, has his dad staying in his box room while helping him sort out financial support and housing. His health is poor, he is frail. Had obviously not been eating or able to afford medical care of medications during last months/weeks abroad.

Now wayward son is manipulating elderly relative to get accommodation, claim benefits and claim he is his carer. He is also telling him that they should go back abroad. In other words, he has ruined him, financially abused him and wants to carry that on.
we also know that there has been physical abuse and elderly relative is frightened of the son.

Elderly relative will not listen to ANY advice, will not hear anything negative about son, is now trying to make up his mind what to do.

How would you sort out this mess?????

Conversations take place regularly re the possible solutions. He just won’t hear any of it re wayward son.
Warden controlled accommodation would be perfect. He won’t consider this as it’s for “old people”.

Lose that old brick phone.

Get a social worker to assess condition of elderly man. I won't say father because he hasn't been a father.

Kindly son can sort out POA both health and financial. Perhaps a social worker can sort out some benefits. Everything the kindly son is doing is much more then the old man deserves.

Yes. Reaping what he sewed, however, he is vulnerable, unwell, has nothing and needs kindness.
kindly son would not abandon his dad and thinks nothing of the past.

“Elderly relative” sounds like he’s finally getting consequences. Boo boo.

I hate the assumption that elderly people can’t be absolute ___’s just because they’ve been alive for so long and need fawning over.

Everything the kindly son is doing is much more then the old man deserves.

Exactly and yet it's almost like his loyalty still lies with the arsehole son. I know he's 82 but OP says he's still capable. Could it be because he's frightened of him?

I agree with other that they should seek a social cafe assessment for the elderly relative. However if he has capacity and refuses then that is up to him. Elderly people have the right to make bad decisions just as younger people often do.

I do feel a bit for the younger son. I would say it’s no coincidence that he’s turned out this way if he was emotionally neglected by parents and instead bought off with material things. of course this is not an excuse to manipulate and abuse anyone.

I guess Son 1 doesn't want his old man in the boxroom forever .
Old man needs to sort out something else. If he's offered something by SS Son 1 should tell him he has to get out of the boxroom and take it.

Give old man a severe talking-to about taking responsibility for himself and not getting into the clutches of Son 2 again.
As he has capacity , he can understand all this as well as anyone else.

I'm old too. There's no need for special respect for old man.
Son 1 shouldn't let himself be taken advantage of, by selfish old man.

Is elderly father getting state pension?
I'd get in touch with social services and register him with a gp.
I don't think the son will be entitled to benefit as he hasn't resided in the uk.

Yes pension and GP has been sorted for him.

elderly relative cannot live in the box room long term no.
He won’t see a social worker.

you can't if he refuses.

And he does refuse.

What a nasty old man.
As for the 1st Son he must have issues to allow himself to be used by his so called Father.

His so called Father will use him and discard him...again.

Interesting. So what does the father think should happen to him if he's not prepared to consider warden controlled accomodation?

If elderly man has lived abroad for 20ys- I'm very surprised he can even claim free NHS treatment? I assume you have checked his eligibility? (I'm assuming you are partner of 1st son- but ok, lets pretend not )

What does the relative want to do? Where does HE want to live? What are HIS plans if he has such capacity? Would he sign a power of attorney to give the 1st son POA?

IF he is even eligible, I'd get adult social services involved for an assessment, detailing the abuse son 2 caused, which includes financial abuse and leaving father with no money to afford food. As you are housing this man- I doubt they will give him a flat or accommodation unless it was clear he was actually on the street and homeless.

I would also dunk the brick phone in a pint of water, dry off, and wait till it breaks. 'Well, its an old phone so maybe it just died!!!' 'We can help get a new one'. Don't be surprised if elderly man had son 2's phone number written down though in an address type book!!!

Where is your sympathy for "Wayward son"? After all, he is just the product of two extremely selfish people. At least he got some money from his parents, unlike any of the other 6 kids. Maybe when he's 82 you'll talk more kindly about him.

catandcoffee · Today 21:37
What a nasty old man I have NO idea where on earth you got this from!
He isn’t nasty at all!

He has been ripped off by a con artist son for years and years.

There is zero sympathy for wayward son from the rest of the family. He is grey rocked. He has done some awful things over the year. He is a blood sucking self absorbed, self centred, aggressive, waste of space leach.

This. He’s a piece of shit and deserves no saving.

He abandoned his wife and 3 kids. And abandoned his next one? Are you for real?

I’d mind my business.

kindly son has completely moved on and built up a nice relations with his dad over the last 20 years.
He is the only one who has. None of the others have had anything to do with him ever.
Its all their own business isn’t it.

So here we are.

My question is still around what is possible now.
Not dragging up the past that kindly son has no interest in.

I will say it again, I am in no way involved in any of this but wondered what people thought the options would be or if anyone would mind sharing their experiences.

Whose options though? The kindly son's? Well, his options are to either support his father or to leave him to it. And he's not that kindly if he can forgive his father yet have no compassion for his half-brother who was also fucked over by the same father. You admitted that he was emotionally neglected by his parents.

If you mean the old abandoner? He isn't looking for options. He's decided to stand by his youngest child. Maybe out of guilt. Maybe out of love. Who knows.

What else is there?

The old man should be grateful that any of his children care.

A man which shacks up with a woman leaves his wife and children behind - completely abandons them and provides nothing for them over the years - then proceeds to have another child who he also fails to parent is a nasty man who doesn't deserve the kindness of the son whose home he is now living in.

The most crucial point of this situation is to know that elderly relative is a self serving, selfish, sociopath, who thinks only of himself. He and his 2nd wife abandoned ALL of their children and then subsequently neglected wayward son. I've been abandoned by both my parents and the excruciating pain of abandonment and rejection follows you forever. To claim elderly relative isn't "nasty" is dismissing the pain his kids have had to endure. He is NASTY. Kindly son will have abandonment issues he's trying to work through and his self serving father will only make this worse.

It's Kindly Son my heart goes out to, and all the other poor kids involved.

I really feel for the kind son. He's been treated so badly and clearly yearns for a relationship with his father. I don't think his father deserves a relationship at all with this son.

I think this goes to show the damage that a narcissistic and selfish man can inflict on his children.

@ColinRobinsonsfamiliar To answer the question of what to do. From personal experience of this type of egocentric, selfish, nasty parent, Id suggest Kindly Son needs to understand his Father being in his life will cause him more emotional damage, he wont find the perfect Father hes always wanted, because he doesnt exist. As Kindly Sons already paying for stuff with limited money, he'll be financially bled dry in time. He needs Elderly Relative out of his house asap and living elsewhere.

It would appear all the other kids have worked this out, hence they have nothing to do with Elderly Relative.