How to deal with increasing racism from DM

[Champagneforeveryone]

DM is 76 and in stubbornly good health, though admittedly lonely since being widowed 7 years ago. She's still mentally sharp, though her very limited social life (her own choice) means she has little actual conversation - I wonder (in kinder moments) whether this is part of the problem, that she just says "stuff" to fill in the conversation.

An example is a conversation this morning where she's taken herself into the city to "cheer herself up". However she says she was made to feel "like she didn't belong" by the foreigners. There's nothing specific that has led to this pronouncement, just that people were not speaking in English, and also had the temerity to look at her.

She's also put out by the number of "foreigner shops" that have sprung up, particularly as Selfridges has recently closed - though personally I'm doubtful that was the fault of the Polish deli <shrug> She says the city "used to be lovely" it really wasn't and the inference is this is down to the foreigners.

None of this is overtly racist, it's just her opinion (albeit one that she would do well to keep to herself) We've chided her on a couple of occasions but she's not to be deflected, and partly I think this fuels the fire.

In truth we're not close but we are her only family. I find having to navigate conversations in public puts me slightly on edge and I've just turned down a casual meet up when she's next visiting as I'm actually secretly embarrassed.

Any advice on how best to negotiate this (without starting WW3) would be greatly appreciated 🙂

You have asked, no change in behaviour. Simplest answer would be only to meet her at her home. Tell her why though.

People of your mother's age were brought in ( if in UK ) at a racist time .
The world was just opening up and many people had a problem with that " They come over here and take our jobs " Or " Go to the * shop on the corner "
All totally unacceptable now , but common back then.
Could you just not say to her that her words / opinions are now not acceptable in today's world ?

Just leave her to it. She won't change.

Does she live in Northampton?

My mum is exactly the same, I hate it and think there is no excuse for it. My mum says things like 'it's like I'm in a foreign country' and 'stay away from that area, it's full of foreigners'.

Personally I think it IS overtly racist and they DO know that it's wrong.

Yes they are of an older generation but they don't live under a rock, they KNOW they're being racist.

I'll never, ever get my head around it. We are all humans no matter our background ffs!!

As for how to deal with it, I really don't know.

My DM used to read the Daily Fail and I am sure this influenced her and contributed to her racist views and Brexit vote in later life. She was never like it when she was younger. We sometimes had to put her right in conversations because it was so cringing and awful to listen to especially if our kids were present. All her friends were just as bad though with their narrow right wing anti immigration views. There's not much you can do except call her out on it if it's exceptionally bad. Whether you do that gently or not is up to you and depends on what she said.

Why are you asking? Are you missing the point?

The problem is we live at opposite ends of the country so we only ever see each other for a few days visit at a time.

I completely get that she grew up in a different age, but as children we grew up in London. You couldn't get more multicultural at the time.

This morning I didn't say anything and she said "oh, I thought you'd been cut off" but then continued to tell me about her awful trip out. I probably need to be more direct, but then I fear we'll head off down the wounded martyr route 🧐

I have this with mine, I try to get onto a different conversation.

My mam does the exact same thing. Even my dad tells her off about it sometimes; he is a bit Daily Mail himself but my mother has been known to still say eg “coloured people” and then start an argument suggesting she doesn’t know why it’s different from “person of colour”. She does know, she’s just being racist. My dad (who is three years older than her) would never say that.

I just tell her she’s being racist. She gets a cat bum mouth on but lets me change the subject, although it never teaches her for future reference.

My DM will do this even though she is a foreigner!

I put it down to a combination of too much Daily Fail, plus the conversation of her similarly aged friends.

DH is much better with it than I am, he has a way of gently asking her what she means and when she has to explain it, and have a conversation about it, she invariably changes her mind. It helps that she thinks he is The World's Best Son-In-Law.

So if she went on about foreign shops, DH would probably get her to say which shops. He'd then go with 'Oh, we went to our local Polish shop last week, you can get the most amazing cake in there' which is awkward for her as clearly she doesn't want to disagree with TWBSIL. If she carried on about too many foreigners he might push on how marvellous it is that people want to work here, there is an employment crisis and we need people to do the jobs etc.

It's not long before she can't argue as he is so flipping sweet about it as well. I just get cross and disappointed.

Thinking about the experience of my now deceased London relatives who were born & bred in Brixton

They did find the rapid growth in none white communities threatening - the riots in particular seemed to involve lots of minorities and they were scared shitless by the rioting - it's why they moved out of London

challenging that is difficult especially if they have had scary experiences- and older people often feel threatened more easily- scared. I think that's why they often struggle with change also - it's scary

I say this not as justification but as a thought that may help you to think how best to approach things

So not just saying that's racist but to find sone way to help her feel part of the community not excluded from it , how to feel safe

My mother is like this. I've begged her to stop reading the Daily Mail but she refuses. I've just had to accept that she is an arsehole. It would be easier to accept if she hadn't voted for Brexit and wasn't herself an immigrant but there it is. She's a nasty piece of work and I can't stand to be around her.

I do as AnnaMagnani's husband does, and turn any complaints into a positive comment. So a recent complaint about an area nearby where you can no longer buy "English food, it's all foreign food" (not true but there is a high percentage of Jamaican population) I replied with a comment about being able to buy English food anywhere and how delicious jerk chicken is, she really needs to try some.
I think she's looking for others to agree with her and doesn't know how to react when I reply with a cheerful comment.

"Mum, I'm here to talk about anything that's bothering you, so let's have one conversation about this topic and after that I don't want to hear it again."

Pour tea, give her a biscuit, hear her out, thank her for sharing, and tell her that's all you want to hear about it.

If she brings it up again, ask her what she wants you to do about it.

@PuddleglumtheMarshWiggle I think you have nailed it, she is just chucking out a statement she thinks everyone agrees with to make small talk.

When presented with friendly disagreement, the conversation is actually more interesting as it makes her think - Are all the shops really foreign? If so where is she buying her own food? and it moves on.

We might get a reflection on how things always change, learn something actually interesting about her youth eg what it was like to shop in 1950 and generally acknowledge that it is OK to disagree with a newspaper.

My parents, 72, are so racist I didn't taste pasta until I left home, let alone a curry! They use all the inappropriate terms (also for homosexuality), and all the "taking our jobs" nonsense. It's disgusts me and is one of the reasons we no longer speak.

They read the Daily Mail, vote conservative and voted for Brexit. They were low earners and from a mining background.

Her feelings are hers, just as yours are you. Why should she change, you dont agree with her and thats fine

That's what I said earlier though, they're her opinions (however dubious) It's not like she's got a Nazi dungeon in her house or anything like that. She's not so openly racist I can make a big deal over it, it's more the insidious suggestions behind what she says.

It's more how to completely disengage from the conversation without us following the "nobody cares what I have to say" line. And also how to reconcile that my mother (however difficult our relationship was and is) has these views that not only do I not agree with, but I would be mortified for her to voice in public.

I don’t think it’s an age thing. My parents are 76 and grew up and lived in Sussex - there was barely a single non white face even at my secondary school yet they don’t moan about foreigners.
My dad does sometimes call Asian people “Oriental” but when I say “we don’t really say oriental any more” he’s like “oh yes, sorry”.
He isn’t homophobic although they grew up at a time where laughing at flamboyant gayness was totally normal (I mean me too really - wasn’t that the entire plot of Will and Grace?), but although they might mention “oh so and so’s son is gay” they wouldn’t say it in a derogatory way.
I do understand that when you get older it can be hard to see your area changing, but I don’t think you have to go the way of blaming foreigners. My parents think it’s nice that people want to come and live here - they don’t like illegal immigrants but only because they say it isn’t fair that they jump the queue.

I think trying to suggest that racism and xenophobia is expected in older generations and should not be challenged is a simply a cop out.

It should never be acceptable for people to look down on others because they come from a different country or have a different skin colour. I don't care if someone is 75 years old, racist/sexist/homophobic views are not acceptable.

I would simply tell her that you won't tolerate that type of language around you.

Ah! My intelligent mum went this way with age. She was very fond of sweeping statements concerning people referred to as “they”.
“Of course they want us all to have to live under their Shariah law” - Who said that mum? Who’s “they”? - “You know! The Muslims!” - Well none of the muslims I know want that and I’m not aware of anyone from the Muslim Council of Great Britain saying that. Where did you hear it? - she’d peter out, grudgingly. She lived in a tiny, uniformly white village and the only muslims she ever met would be Doctors and my daughter’s friends and occasionally their parents, who she thought were the bees knees because Doctors/ polite/ nice house etc. not that she’d necessarily know they were muslim.

Same with immigrants “they” were always getting all the jobs/ not getting any jobs and getting all the benefits…

I’d gently argue with her most of the time but not to the point of causing WW3.

It’s disappointing but I wasn’t going forget 45 years of loving motherhood and reject her on the basis of something that only crept in with senility. She was in her right mind but you could see other things like loss of inhibition, grumpiness, inability to adapt to change etc. that often comes with age.

She got wound up by my Daily Mail devoted uncle on a regular basis. Another inhabitant of an overwhelmingly white, middle class rural village who loves to fulminate over his toast and marmalade about the many and varied threats from immigrants and brown people to what makes Britain Great. He’s not the sharpest tool in the box but he’s a man, and mum always set great store by the opinions of men.

I’d honestly just leave her to it and ignore the comments.

She isn’t suddenly gonna become woke at the age of 76.

I know it’s not a v popular opinion but I don’t think old people, who’ve lived their whole lives in a very different way to what the world is now, should suddenly have to change to keep up with society. they probably have enough problems without worrying how to be PC for their adult children

It's not 'woke' or 'P C' to not be racist though !!! I think the excuse that they are of a different generation is generally a load of bollocks

No it’s not woke or PC to not be racist but people who are that age are highly unlikely to do a 180 and change their minds. They may also never see what they’re doing as wrong, especially if it’s subtle (to them) such as in OP’s mum’s case.

Example - I don’t believe a man can be a woman. This opinion, in many, many people from a younger generation’s eyes, makes me violent and dangerous. Them begging me to reconsider won’t change my mind. Name calling won’t change my mind. And I’m not elderly - but that is my opinion and I don’t want to change it. Elderly people are no different and I just think it’s an utterly pointless crusade trying to convert them all. After all nobody likes being schooled by people younger than them, no matter the cause.