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My 19 year old son is physically and emotionally abusive to me

70 replies

anguishedmum · 06/08/2022 21:13

Hello, newbie here and in dire need for advice please. I have two sons, 25 and 19 and have been trying to cope with an alcoholic husband for years, something which is obviously negatively affecting us all. My 19 year old is a really sharp and kind kid, on his first year at law school. He lives at home, is fully dependent on us and for the most part, he and I have a very good relationship, talk a lot about everything, help each other emotionally and get on quite well, most of the time. However, he has always been pretty assertive, does not easily take no for an answer, always wants to have the last word and has been physically and emotionally abusive to me on two major occasions in the last 3 years. This usually follows a conversation that gets heated up for no real reason and when this happens, I usually say or show him that I do not want to keep talking and/or arguing on this tone, and will do so later when things calm down. On both occasions he refuses to accept or respect this. The first time, I tried to get some time-out and retreated to my bedroom. He followed me up there, calling me names and relentlessly pursued me around the house, slamming doors and breaking things and physically shoving me and pushing me around. Today, the same thing happened, I said I did not wish to continue talking until he had calmed down and used a less aggressive tone of voice and when he did not respect that, I simply closed off my ears with my hands and concentrated on my laptop, choosing to ignore him. He responded by coming over to where I was sitting, towering over me, grabbing by wrists and physically pulling them away from my ears, pinning me down and calling me names. I did not speak to him at all, just tried to defend myself and free myself from his grasp and accidentally knocking his phone down. He continued to grab and hurt me physically, shutting down and threatening to break my laptop, calling me names and laughing in my face. This behavior is very very hurtful for me and I don’t know how to cope with it. I realize that his father addiction to alcohol may be at the root of some of this aggressive behavior, but I don’t think it justifies the whole of it. Last time this happened, I left the house for 5 days. This time, I decided to face him with consequences, so I withdrew his monthly allowance from his bank account. I am planning to tell him that I am perfectly happy to pay for his lifestyle and studies, as long as we are in a mutually loving and respectful relationship, but not otherwise. I do not know what else to do and how to cope with this very hurtful situation and any advice would be more than welcome.

OP posts:
MaChienEstUnDick · 07/08/2022 14:15

Elleherd · 07/08/2022 11:40

This has a name: Child/Adolescent to Parent Violence and Abuse or CAPVA.

‘the majority of CAPVA cases involve boys in late adolescence and their mothers and is most likely to be physical violence.’

‘Immense shame and fear of criminalisation of their child or the child being removed from the home’ are behind the under reporting of what is actually more common than man realise.

www.pegsupport.co.uk/

www.riseuk.org.uk/get-help/about-domestic-abuse/child-to-parent-abuse

whosincharge.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/WIC-Addressing-Child-to-Parent-Violence-and-Abuse-Information-to-help-parents-V1-2020-3.pdf

reducingtherisk.org.uk/child-on-parent-violence/

I’m concerned that you may well not do what you’re currently saying. It’s easy to tell people you will, but can be a lot harder to do in practice. Ideally you will go and learn a lot, and talk to some of the above organizations, and regain a decent parental relationship whether that requires him to live elsewhere or not.

This. It's common and was very much identified in the femicide survey this year. By which I mean. Women die at the hands of men, the femicide survey tracks the women who die at the hands of men, and one of the emerging trends is intra-generational violence. That is, women being killed by their sons and grandsons.

You cannot brush this under the carpet and I'm really concerned that issuing an ultimatum just won't work. please seek advice from a domestic abuse charity - they will have seen this before and they will be able to help you.

Elleherd · 07/08/2022 14:22

Sorry have re read your OP He lives at home, is fully dependent on us
Mine had to, wasn't ready for independent living at the same time as studying. (might have been able to do one or the other, but not both at the same time)
He wouldn't have survived halls, but for precisely those reasons was encouraged to take on paid work. Harder to build (real) self respect in some circumstances.

Eunorition · 07/08/2022 14:25

Continuing to allow children to live in the hints of violent, alcoholic men means you beget more violent men. The damage is done.

It's unlikely you can kick both of them out without violence, but that would be the first step, or you really need to just leave yourself. Maybe the elder son can help. Contact the police and start proceedings, so your son learns there are consequences to his actions - something he never learned seeing his father never suffer consequences. He has learned women exist to be screamed at, abused and beaten. He's not going to unlearn that now without a lot of intervention.

KnowButNeedU2TellMeAsItIs · 07/08/2022 14:36

Hi OP, I’m so sorry to hear you are going thru this. My teen DD was physically abusive to me and the only way it stopped was by being clear that if it happened again I would call the police - and then when it did happen again, as I’m sorry to say it will happen again with you, I called the police. This had to happen twice before the message was clear. The other key learning was that I named it as abuse and told my close circle. I’m so sorry that you have to go through this but it’s name it, issue a clear warning, police and then if it continues you have to throw him out for his own learning. It’s really really hard and the only reconcile is that it is my job to show my child that they cannot behave that way without consequence.

anguishedmum · 07/08/2022 14:56

Hi Elleherd, thanks again. Yes, the financial arrangement I described is purely technical. He has an account which is joint with both me and his father-our accounts are not joint with him. He does not drive yet, he will be getting his license shortly. He is currently home for the holidays from University. He does have some small independent income sources, from summer/part time jobs. He has been in a relationship for 4 years now

OP posts:
LolaSparkle · 07/08/2022 15:01

Ohtoberoavingagain · 07/08/2022 03:54

I’m sorry but you’re not handling this well and I can understand why. The alcoholic husband will have worn you down, why are you still with him?
Cutting off finances to your son which he’ll realise in a few days ( I assume) is likely to inflame him more.
Kick husband out. He’ll never improve.
Kick son out. If he ever assaults you again 999. Have him arrested. He’s learning each time it’s ok to assault a woman. He’ll move on to g/f, wife.
Sounds harsh but I knew a friend’s son assaulted her and within a year witnessed him assaulting his g/f.

This ⬆️⬆️⬆️

Str8talker · 07/08/2022 15:07

Chuck out the 19 year-old, and tell him he can return to the fold once he has proved his behaviour has improved to a level you're happy with.
Your hubby's an achoholic? Do you realise that because you didn't split from him years ago and had dared to make a fresh start, your rebellious son has developed into the person he is now? Do you intend to spend the rest of your life in this situation?

PonyPatter44 · 07/08/2022 15:36

Is he violent to his girlfriend if she doesn't do what he says?

OP i know he's your lovely son and you don't want to think badly of him - but he isn't respectful to you one little bit! I totally understand that you were trying to head off the confrontation by ignoring him, but in his head, he "won". He needs to be told in no uncertain terms that if he ever so much as raises his voice to his mother again, he will be leaving the house. If he ever, EVER lays a finger on you again, you will phone the police.

I bet his girlfriend has an interesting tale or two to tell, as well.

StillHappy · 07/08/2022 15:44

anguishedmum · 07/08/2022 14:56

Hi Elleherd, thanks again. Yes, the financial arrangement I described is purely technical. He has an account which is joint with both me and his father-our accounts are not joint with him. He does not drive yet, he will be getting his license shortly. He is currently home for the holidays from University. He does have some small independent income sources, from summer/part time jobs. He has been in a relationship for 4 years now

I think it’s time for him to return to his university town and stay there all year round.

StillHappy · 07/08/2022 15:45

Str8talker · 07/08/2022 15:07

Chuck out the 19 year-old, and tell him he can return to the fold once he has proved his behaviour has improved to a level you're happy with.
Your hubby's an achoholic? Do you realise that because you didn't split from him years ago and had dared to make a fresh start, your rebellious son has developed into the person he is now? Do you intend to spend the rest of your life in this situation?

Is this serious, that a partner suffering from a mental illness should be left, rather than supported?

Elleherd · 07/08/2022 16:03

anguished I asked about some of this stuff looking for how much he has or has not successfully adulted, assuming him to have been in lock down with his family between the fist incident, and this one. If he'd suddenly reverted to childhood in his first uni holidays, (not that it makes his behavior acceptable) and what maybe could be done to increase responsibility and independence, to go alongside a clear ultimatum that any future repetition is 'three strikes and your out.'

(Ds probably sensibly decided he's not ready for a relationship alongside a high paced work situation, but I suspect it does add to frustrations.)

It's not a given, but I would be concerned longer term for his partner tbh, and how he is with potential road rage with driving.

(He hasn't necessarily done anything wrong there, given he must have initially been around 15, then lock down, and away at uni so perhaps not that much time in person together later, but..)

An awful lot of the conversations with Ds on all this centered around anger management, but also his own and my self respect. Threatening me being hardly conducive to having any, regardless of how tough I might or might not be. His responsibility to not abuse his size or strength against those who can't match it (or who'd have to use a weapon to subdue the person they love and the consequences to both of us.)

When I asked him how he'd feel walking past the neighbors/friends if I went past them with a black eye from him, he crumbled into tears. Ultimatums alone wont fix it. Work has to be done, and the aggressor needs to want to be that it in the first place.

I only found out about resources after we'd got through the worst with Ds, and tbh there was nothing out there for brain damaged sibling other than put them in a home, which wasn't happening.

This link might be actually the best one for Monday: www.capafirstresponse.org/

anguishedmum · 07/08/2022 21:07

Thank you all for your answers. Concerning some questions some of you may have, as to why my son is still living with us and is financially dependent on us, you should be aware that not everybody posting on these forums lives in the US or the UK. In my country and culture, families are very close knit, family ties are strong and it is very common for children to live at home and be dependent on their parents, at least until they complete their studies, get a job, get married. So my son living in the family home while studying and us paying for everything is really quite ok. What is obviously not OK is his abusive behaviour towards me and you have all being raising my concerns as to what this may breed in the future.

OP posts:
badhappening · 08/08/2022 08:59

@anguishedmum

If he is prosecuted and gets a criminal record he can say goodbye to a career in law (he may also get kicked off his course). He really should know this already.

I would make sure he is fully aware of your intentions and that abusive action can have very dire consequences, which will affect him for the rest of his life.

anguishedmum · 08/08/2022 18:11

So....update. He wrote me a letter saying he realizes he got totally out of control for no reason and that his behavior was totally wrong and unacceptable and he is truly sorry. He says he understands that I must be feeling angry, sad and disappointed and I have every right to feel this way, that he understands all this could have been avoided if he had kept his feelings under control and that he wishes he could go back in time. That he would like to discuss things with me whenever I feel ready and that until then, he wants me to know he loves me and is devastated by what he did. I have not responded yet in any way, but I feel this is definitely a positive step and I am considering having a conversation with him soon.

OP posts:
Softplayhooray · 08/08/2022 19:28

itsjustnotok · 06/08/2022 21:22

He’s studying law and thinks it’s ok to abuse his mum? Kick him out. Sorry but he needs to learn the hard way.

This. Tell him you will have to call the police if it happens again and that would end his law career. And just cutting off his monthly allowance isn't enough!

I think he needs a lot of help with anger management too and that may well stem from living in an abusive environment with an alcoholic parent, and feeling helpless and scared for so many years, which has led to a maladaptive coping strategy and perhaps even PTSD (pure speculation on my part, I'm no medic).

Softplayhooray · 08/08/2022 19:29

Cross post OP sorry! That's great that he wrote that. Perhaps you both need as open and honest a conversation as you can about how he might need help and whether there are unresolved issues for him. If you can engage him in an anger management program, that would also help.

Bonheurdupasse · 08/08/2022 19:36

OP

Hopefully he means that and he's not just being manipulative if he's realised he might have pushed you too far.
One way to know that is to get him to try to make amends - get him to suggest something(s) that he could do for you.
Watch out for his reaction - if he "just can't think of anything", or if you call his suggestion(s) insufficient - does he get frustrated/angry/start showing his true colours again?

Itwillworkifyoutryit2222 · 08/08/2022 20:37

anguishedmum · 08/08/2022 18:11

So....update. He wrote me a letter saying he realizes he got totally out of control for no reason and that his behavior was totally wrong and unacceptable and he is truly sorry. He says he understands that I must be feeling angry, sad and disappointed and I have every right to feel this way, that he understands all this could have been avoided if he had kept his feelings under control and that he wishes he could go back in time. That he would like to discuss things with me whenever I feel ready and that until then, he wants me to know he loves me and is devastated by what he did. I have not responded yet in any way, but I feel this is definitely a positive step and I am considering having a conversation with him soon.

@anguishedmum that does sound like a good first step I am glad to hear he understands he was wrong. But respectfully, I would highly recommend you read “Why does he do that? By Lundy Bancroft” very closely, as soon as possible. He also appears on podcasts and YouTube videos so that might be another way of hearing his take on these matters. I know it’s been recommended on here already, and that someone shared the PDF, but one thing in your update is well addressed in that book. By reading it you will be well prepared for a real conversation with him, beyond just assurances from him.

It’s the “totally out of control for no reason” part. He might really think this, but in his book Bancroft does a good job at outlining why the “going out of control” excuse is probably not true. Abusing someone is a way of getting control over them not losing control, there is something in this process for him that he finds rewarding.

The abuse pathway includes the happy phase when all is well, typically followed by a build up of tension (abuser might get snappy, impatient, quiet, or just withdrawn for a few days or longer), followed by either the threat of emotional abuse/violence and/or actual abuse or violence. This often followed by heartfelt (seeming) remorse and assurances. This is followed by a happy period where you may even be closer than before. The happy period can last hours, days or even months before the cycle happens again.

Bancroft attributes this to a couple of things. First, there’s usually an underlying attitude, typically towards women, that it is their role to serve men, to be kind and comforting and not challenge them. This attitude means their pride becomes more wounded if they are challenged by a woman rather than a man.They may feel safer intimidating or hurting a woman, and they may feel more justified because women are supposed to facilitate them (in there kind). This must be challenged or it could poison his attitude for the rest of his life.

Second, there is something to be gained by him from the abuse, for example even if he acknowledges he’s wrong he may have done a good job at deterring you from saying or doing whatever upset him in future, he has taught you what subjects requires extra sensitivity in future so his ego isn’t hurt- this is a win for him.

Another benefit could be that because his behaviour was so awful he knows you will go out of your way to put it behind you both and will make an extra effort to be kind, supportive and positive, you may find yourself doing extra things for him because you are so relieved the badness is over. The big problem is, you may also find this relief quite rewarding which might make you extra motivated try to preempt what will upset him in future, meaning your “good behaviour” may be even better for him than before and last longer. If it stopped there, it might be okay, but the demand for “kindness” is often bottomless, and the triggers can become smaller and smaller.

This is a big problem, because he is still so young if he doesn’t unlearn it now there’s a chance he will bring this approach into other relationships, and will destroy any chance of true closeness.

The book has good advice on what strategies you can use to avoid this dynamic.

Itwillworkifyoutryit2222 · 08/08/2022 20:44

Softplayhooray · 08/08/2022 19:29

Cross post OP sorry! That's great that he wrote that. Perhaps you both need as open and honest a conversation as you can about how he might need help and whether there are unresolved issues for him. If you can engage him in an anger management program, that would also help.

@Softplayhooray I can definitively see why anger management training might seem like a good idea but unfortunately it has been shown to not be very effective with abusive behaviours from what I understand.
Possibly if @anguishedmum ‘s DS behave this way with a lot of people in his life, e.g. in college, work and family life it could be partially useful. However, as I mentioned in my previous post, the explosive anger in abusive cases is rarely because some one is losing control or can’t manage the anger, it’s typically because it’s an effective way of getting control in a situation. The most effective way to deal with it is first to make sure it doesn’t give them the control they are craving, if that makes sense.
If DS for example would never dream of shouting at or hitting an older respected professor in this way, there’s a high probability that he’s not losing control at all.

anguishedmum · 08/08/2022 20:49

Thank you so much for your input. This is really very helpful for me to understand what is going on and plan my future steps

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