Page 31 | 'Breast is Best'

OddSocksandRainbowDocs · 2022-08-02T10:29:00+00:00

It's National Breastfeeding Week and I've seen the phrase 'Breast is Best' banded about quite a few times. Whilst I agree breastfeeding is scientifically better, some mothers (myself included) physically could not breastfeed so chose to formula feed instead. I was made to feel like a failure by a midwife for choosing to do so. My little one is now one and a half. She is happy, she is healthy. I don't know who needs to hear this but 'Breast is Best' isn't always the case. 'Fed is Best' is most definitely the case. It doesn't matter how you feed your baby, as long as the baby is fed, that is all that matters[smile]

Original poster

OddSocksandRainbowDocs · 03/08/2022 14:31

BloodAndFire · 03/08/2022 14:27

I was responding to this bit of the previous poster's post, that you agreed with:

And the whole breast is best message can be hurtful for mums who want to but can't.

Lots of things are hurtful but true.

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@BloodAndFire Some posters seem to think that 'Fed is Best' is hurtful as it 'undermines all the hard work'. Still doesn't take away the fact that a fed baby is better than a hungry baby because their mother believes that it's breast or nothing.

Might be hurtful but it's true.

OP posts:

Wouldloveanother · 03/08/2022 14:31

MajorCarolDanvers · 03/08/2022 14:23

I'd rather see a fed baby than a baby who isn't fed because there mother is perservering with breastfeeding

Outside an abuse situation that is not going to happen. Of course baby is going to be fed. That is where "fed is best" just doesn't work.

It can and does happen. Look at the ‘failure to thrive’ threads on here - babies being admitted to hospital malnourished and yet still mum doesn’t want to give formula. If they were plain lazy or abusive, they probably wouldn’t be posting it on here - these women truly believe formula is something to be wary of even when their baby is starving.

MajorCarolDanvers · 03/08/2022 14:35

Wouldloveanother · 03/08/2022 14:31

It can and does happen. Look at the ‘failure to thrive’ threads on here - babies being admitted to hospital malnourished and yet still mum doesn’t want to give formula. If they were plain lazy or abusive, they probably wouldn’t be posting it on here - these women truly believe formula is something to be wary of even when their baby is starving.

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To clarify - my point was that in a choice between being fed and not being fed - that not feeding a baby is bad thing.

ancientgran · 03/08/2022 14:36

2boysand1princess · 03/08/2022 14:24

Managed to BF with dc1 for almost a year. DC2 was very prem and poorly at birth. I also had a traumatic crash second c section. He was in the nicu for 3 months. First was “fed” through IV for a week then told I have to pump to start feeding properly. He was too small to latch on or even be handled at that point. Managed to pump tiny amounts for 2 weeks, but as I couldn’t hold him and he couldn’t latch on, my supply just didn’t pick up. They tried a very gentle formula for prems, but warned could cause a condition called NEC which is the number 1 cause of death for micro preemies. Within a day of starting formula his bowels became inflamed and he was immediately taken off formula and put on IV. We were told to give permission for donated breast milk. Of course we said yes and he thrived. A few weeks later they tried formula again, but he developed sepsis. Anyway, I will eternally be grateful for the kind ladies who donate breast milk for preemies. Breast is definitely best for very prem babies.
With DC3, I BF for 4 weeks, but couldn’t keep up and slowly transitioned to formula and baby was fine. She is 2 years old now and I do look back and think I should’ve tried harder, set alarms for nightly pumping sessions etc, but truth was I had 2 older DC who needed me too, as well as the fact that I was an older mum, just had 3rd section and mentally and physically I was knackered. I had pnd and was slap bang in middle of first lockdown. I made a decision that suited both baby and I and stated formula feeding. I do know formula isn’t better than breast, but 3rd DC coped ok with formula and that was the important thing at the time for all of us.

Thank you for that message. I have often wondered about the babies who received my milk, I think probably more than one as I donated for months and usually at least a pint a day. I hope it helped them but I have also wondered about the mothers and if they were happy for their baby to have my milk or if it was hurtful to them that me, an anonymous stranger could give them something that they couldn't. You have put my mind at rest on that and I hope your little one is doing well.

Don't beat yourself up about breastfeeding after a CS, I fed 4 and the one I struggled with was the one who was EMCS, I thought it made things much harder and anyway I think 4 weeks has given her a great start.

BeanieTeen · 03/08/2022 14:50

Does this work for other public health campaigns too? Everyone should eat more fruit and veg and unprocessed food. But if you can’t / don’t want to, microwave meals and takeaways are fine too.

Well no - it’s more like saying everyone should eat more fruit and veg. ‘Fresh is best’ but frozen and canned count too and are also nutritious.

We should all get more exercise. Walk more, cycle if you can. But if don’t fancy it, driving is perfectly good too.

Or… we should all get more exercise. Fitting walking or cycling into your everyday life while incorporating fresh air is ‘best’ but if that doesn’t work for you and need to drive from place to place, walking on a treadmill at home or using an exercise bike works well too.

This is all very reminiscent of comparing formula to junk food which we had earlier on in the thread. I think if ‘breast is best’ advocates didn’t give such deliberately obtuse (and just plain inaccurate) analogies I could maybe take the ‘campaign’ more seriously.

Wouldloveanother · 03/08/2022 14:58

Exercising will give you far more tangible benefits than being breastfed, so not comparable really.

karmakameleon · 03/08/2022 14:59

BeanieTeen · 03/08/2022 14:50

Does this work for other public health campaigns too? Everyone should eat more fruit and veg and unprocessed food. But if you can’t / don’t want to, microwave meals and takeaways are fine too.

Well no - it’s more like saying everyone should eat more fruit and veg. ‘Fresh is best’ but frozen and canned count too and are also nutritious.

We should all get more exercise. Walk more, cycle if you can. But if don’t fancy it, driving is perfectly good too.

Or… we should all get more exercise. Fitting walking or cycling into your everyday life while incorporating fresh air is ‘best’ but if that doesn’t work for you and need to drive from place to place, walking on a treadmill at home or using an exercise bike works well too.

This is all very reminiscent of comparing formula to junk food which we had earlier on in the thread. I think if ‘breast is best’ advocates didn’t give such deliberately obtuse (and just plain inaccurate) analogies I could maybe take the ‘campaign’ more seriously.

With fruit and veg, fresh isn’t always best. Some vitamins and minerals are more plentiful or accessible to our bodies in frozen or canned products. Maybe the analogy should be that vitamin pills are ok to as they are the made made substitutes for the naturally occurring product?

With exercise, you’ve described multiple forms of exercise. I’ve never seen a campaign that promotes exercise and mentions those who can do none at all.

karmakameleon · 03/08/2022 14:59

Made made = man made

BeanieTeen · 03/08/2022 15:11

With fruit and veg, fresh isn’t always best.

Wait, what? You mean there are actually exceptions to my clever slogan??
Of course I can’t except that and will stubbornly proclaim ‘fresh is best’ no matter what anyone tells me…

JumpTheGun · 03/08/2022 15:21

MajorCarolDanvers · 03/08/2022 14:23

I'd rather see a fed baby than a baby who isn't fed because there mother is perservering with breastfeeding

Outside an abuse situation that is not going to happen. Of course baby is going to be fed. That is where "fed is best" just doesn't work.

It pretty much happened to me because through desperation to persevere with breastfeeding and being encouraged by professionals.

He was fed, obviously, but in hindsight not enough. I look back on pictures of how skinny he was and wince.

Somethingsnappy · 03/08/2022 15:22

JumpTheGun · 02/08/2022 11:54

Are the benefits of breastfeeding significant enough that we should ensure there is adequate support for women to do so? - Yes

Are the benefits significant enough that women who do not want to or can’t breastfeed should have their mental health eroded due to the pressure to do so - No.

And here is the prefect answer.

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius · 03/08/2022 15:25

JumpTheGun · 03/08/2022 15:21

It pretty much happened to me because through desperation to persevere with breastfeeding and being encouraged by professionals.

He was fed, obviously, but in hindsight not enough. I look back on pictures of how skinny he was and wince.

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Same here, @MajorCarolDanvers.

2boysand1princess · 03/08/2022 15:28

ancientgran · 03/08/2022 14:36

Thank you for that message. I have often wondered about the babies who received my milk, I think probably more than one as I donated for months and usually at least a pint a day. I hope it helped them but I have also wondered about the mothers and if they were happy for their baby to have my milk or if it was hurtful to them that me, an anonymous stranger could give them something that they couldn't. You have put my mind at rest on that and I hope your little one is doing well.

Don't beat yourself up about breastfeeding after a CS, I fed 4 and the one I struggled with was the one who was EMCS, I thought it made things much harder and anyway I think 4 weeks has given her a great start.

Show quote history

Thank you so much for your kind donations. Donated breast milk saved my baby boy’s life. There is no doubt in that. Every time he was given formula in the early days, his body started shutting down. He was 1.5lb birth weight and is now a tall, healthy and happy 10 year old! Without the milk donations, many mothers would’ve lost their babies. My son and many others born very preterm were at very high risk of developing NEC and not making it. Our bodies were not able to produce the milk due to the traumatic and early births.
It was such a shame that the donations at our hospital were anonymous, as many of of mothers wanted to meet and personally thank those who helped our vulnerable babies. From the bottom of my heart thank you for donating.

BloodAndFire · 03/08/2022 15:43

OddSocksandRainbowDocs · 03/08/2022 14:31

@BloodAndFire Some posters seem to think that 'Fed is Best' is hurtful as it 'undermines all the hard work'. Still doesn't take away the fact that a fed baby is better than a hungry baby because their mother believes that it's breast or nothing.

Might be hurtful but it's true.

Show quote history

I haven't seen anyone objecting to 'fed is best' because it's 'hurtful'. Only because it's untrue.

Original poster

OddSocksandRainbowDocs · 03/08/2022 15:53

@BloodAndFire There have been posters who have said it undermines the effort put into breastfeeding.

Breastfeeding is scientifically better. As said in my original post.
Some mothers cannot/choose not to breastfeed.
This then means they formula feed so their baby does not go hungry.

'BREAST IS BEST' is not applicable to those who cannot breastfeed. 'FED IS BEST' is applicable to all mothers because at least their baby is getting something! Or are you one of these that believe formula feeding mothers are failures and should have continued?

Therefore, 'FED IS BEST' is more suitable than 'BREAST IS BEST'.

OP posts:

theveg · 03/08/2022 16:03

OP I'm amused that you are still dying on this hill over 24 hours later.....

The reason you are having to repeat yourself ad infinitum is because your argument is lacking in internal coherence and logic and makes no sense, as many people have pointed out.

"Fed is best" is a fucking stupid expression.

ancientgran · 03/08/2022 16:04

2boysand1princess · 03/08/2022 15:28

Thank you so much for your kind donations. Donated breast milk saved my baby boy’s life. There is no doubt in that. Every time he was given formula in the early days, his body started shutting down. He was 1.5lb birth weight and is now a tall, healthy and happy 10 year old! Without the milk donations, many mothers would’ve lost their babies. My son and many others born very preterm were at very high risk of developing NEC and not making it. Our bodies were not able to produce the milk due to the traumatic and early births.
It was such a shame that the donations at our hospital were anonymous, as many of of mothers wanted to meet and personally thank those who helped our vulnerable babies. From the bottom of my heart thank you for donating.

Show quote history

That is so lovely to hear, it is funny as it is 40 years ago but I have wondered about those babies and their mothers from time to time. It is amazing that it could have made such a difference to a baby like your son. I feel a bit tearful at having that resolved after all these years.

BloodAndFire · 03/08/2022 17:01

OddSocksandRainbowDocs · 03/08/2022 15:53

@BloodAndFire There have been posters who have said it undermines the effort put into breastfeeding.

Breastfeeding is scientifically better. As said in my original post.
Some mothers cannot/choose not to breastfeed.
This then means they formula feed so their baby does not go hungry.

'BREAST IS BEST' is not applicable to those who cannot breastfeed. 'FED IS BEST' is applicable to all mothers because at least their baby is getting something! Or are you one of these that believe formula feeding mothers are failures and should have continued?

Therefore, 'FED IS BEST' is more suitable than 'BREAST IS BEST'.

Your point (1) there is literally just the same thing as 'breast is best', only in a less snappy, memorable phrase.

The fact that some women can't or choose not to breastfeed doesn't change that.

The slogan is obviously aimed at those who have a choice and is intended to support and educate new mums, especially those from deprived social backgrounds who are least likely to try to breastfeed.

You are putting all of your energies into attacking a public health campaign aimed at improving maternal and newborn health. Why?

Anonykunt · 03/08/2022 17:03

Breast is of course best. Just because that might bring back painful memories for a mother who tried to feed but was inadequately supported to do so or make a mother feel a tinge of guilt who didn't want to, doesn't mean it's not true. If you feel attacked by facts, examine why you feel that way.

Anonykunt · 03/08/2022 17:05

BTW fed is not best. Fed is a minimum. Would you say "fed is best" to a mother feeding her kids supernoodles for breakfast, lunch and dinner?

sdfsdipf9ue · 03/08/2022 17:14

Anonykunt · 03/08/2022 17:05

BTW fed is not best. Fed is a minimum. Would you say "fed is best" to a mother feeding her kids supernoodles for breakfast, lunch and dinner?

Someone made this non-point approximately 768 posts ago...

brookstar · 03/08/2022 17:36

"Fed is best" is a fucking stupid expression.

I'm your opinion. There are many of us who think it's perfectly acceptable.

Bindayagain · 03/08/2022 17:38

OddSocksandRainbowDocs · 03/08/2022 15:53

@BloodAndFire There have been posters who have said it undermines the effort put into breastfeeding.

Breastfeeding is scientifically better. As said in my original post.
Some mothers cannot/choose not to breastfeed.
This then means they formula feed so their baby does not go hungry.

'BREAST IS BEST' is not applicable to those who cannot breastfeed. 'FED IS BEST' is applicable to all mothers because at least their baby is getting something! Or are you one of these that believe formula feeding mothers are failures and should have continued?

Therefore, 'FED IS BEST' is more suitable than 'BREAST IS BEST'.

My mother melted rusks in milk to give me when I was four weeks old. I assume she didn't invent this, so someone must have suggested it to her! (I am clearly rather old).
Was "fed is best" true, in my case? Definitely better to have had this than nothing, but formula (definitely available then) or bm would have been better options.

theveg · 03/08/2022 17:49

You are putting all of your energies into attacking a public health campaign aimed at improving maternal and newborn health. Why?

Exactly.

Best is a superlative adjective. It is only meaningful and in relation to the comparative adjective "better" or the basic adjective "good". But "fed" isn't best, it isn't even better, or good. It is the absolute minimum you can do.

RagingWoke · 03/08/2022 18:04

'BREAST IS BEST' is not applicable to those who cannot breastfeed. 'FED IS BEST' is applicable to all mothers because at least their baby is getting something! Or are you one of these that believe formula feeding mothers are failures and should have continued?

Breast is best and fed is best are not really comparable. Both are twee and shit and this shouldn't be an argument.

Breast is best vs the other options. You concede that is a fact. Breast is tue substance that we have evolved to provide nutrition for infants. Humans have developed substitutes that are a perfectly valid feeding choice but are still a substitute so the breast is best applies here. That doesn't mean it's not a legitimate, safe and valid feeding method for any care giver to choose.

Fed is a necessity, it doesn't matter which method an infant has to be fed to survive and the twee soundbite is only around because for whatever reason this is still a debate.

Feed your baby however you want, but every mother deserves to have the right information (that breast is best, what bf entails, what the alternatives are) and support available to make that choice without this ridiculous argument. FF isn't a failure, most babies are FF. BF isn't shameful or to be hidden or something used to instill some kind of weird shame either way.

'Breast is Best'

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