I need a list of ULTRA processed food and processed food

[LaurieFairyCake]

Internet searching just throws up people arguing about it

Is the (agreeable) difference that processed food is completely recognisable raw ingredients turned into something

• like fruit turned into jam/yeast into marmite

And ULTRA processed food is occasional ingredients with a longer list of additives - stabilisers/gum/E numbers/ ?

Basically I want to be able to compile my own list of food to avoid - and find replacements for things I eat every day (crisps that aren't crisps like Quavers and Wotsits)

And is Ryvita a processed food - basically baked wheat ? But not ultra processed? - I eat them every day !

In that case home baked bread is processed but I don't think that's what it really means. We are not going to eat the raw wheat.

Of course avocados are vegan. Anything that is not taken from an animal, or causes animal suffering, is vegan.

Do you need a knife? It is probably not highly processed.

It really is just another layer of stress to add to the colossal amount of anxiety around diets/food/eating.

If you need to eat a ready meal because you haven't got time to cook but you fancy something hot and tasty like a fish pie (or whatever) then just choose the best you can afford and eat it with lots of fresh veg or salad. Don't stress about it.

A jar of Nutella is obviously ultra processed, but then so is a bar of hazelnut chocolate.

If you're eating too many cheap convenience foods surely you already know?

And why are seed oils the devil all of a sudden and lard OK? The people with heart conditions who gave up lard 40/30/20 years ago must be seething.

Honestly it's impossible to keep up with wildly swinging food fads without worrying.

Oh OK, I've just seen the update about bees. I didn't know that.

Tortillas are ridiculously easy to make at home; most cuisines have an equivalent unleavened bread that’s just flour and water cooked on a griddle. Either wheat flour (for chapati/roti), maize (for tortillas), gram flour (dosa) or oat flour (for Staffordshire oatcakes/oat roti).

Of course avocados are vegan. Anything that is not taken from an animal, or causes animal suffering, is vegan.

Will no one think of the bees

Sorry 'bout 'dat @OldWivesTale

Didn't read all the way down before I posted

Bread is the most commonly eaten UPF in the UK, due to all the additives and how much the typical family consume.

If you Google there are lists of types of bread which are likely to be better for us, eg rye bread.

What I'd like though is a list of brands - or is it only going to be tiny independent bakeries?

its like asking what shade of blue is Aqua. Or is the sea blue or green. There isn't a list or a classification. There's information and then you decide for yourself. On one hand I'm trying to cook from scratch to be healthier. On the other hand I'm eating protein powder and 0%greek yoghurt.

I feel way better then I did 6 months ago, but I'm also more active and sleeping more. Hard to say which has made the biggest difference because everything is supporting and driving everything else.

I also agree with everyone else about eating mindfully. I'm happy to eat UPF if I'm enjoying it. I begrudge eating it because I'm on the go and need to eat and it's all I had, or I hadn't adequately planned.

I'm not an advocate for the Golden Arches either. As for their burger not being UPF, I'd count 'meat' that is mechanically recovered and needs to be bleached before it can be put back into the food chain as really quite processed*

U.K McDonalds is not bleached or MRM. I believe that U.S McDonalds doesn't use it either now.

From U.K Mcdonald's site. Our beef burgers are made from whole cuts of British and Irish beef, with just a pinch of salt and pepper added after cooking.

I also agree with everyone else about eating mindfully. I'm happy to eat UPF if I'm enjoying it. I begrudge eating it because I'm on the go and need to eat and it's all I had, or I hadn't adequately planned.

I think it was Xand van Tulleken who had the opinion that it’s best to, if you feel the need, choose a UPF product mindfully, knowing it’s a Nova 4, and knowing that’s the “thing” you’ll eat that day, and knowing why you chose it. Rather than it being something you grab in a hurry. I think this is the most sensible way of looking at it. Sometimes we want the Big Mac! But other times…you might just think, it’s not even that nice.

Why are you suddenly so worried? Isn't that more like common sense?
It's simple, if you are worried so much, cook most of the food from scratch yourself, then occasional UPF won't affect you so much.

Agree with this. According to the van Tulleken brothers, one in five Brits has a diet made up of 80%+ UPFs. If we can make the shift to much lower than that it can only be a good thing.

An interesting (I think) point about UPFs being cheaper... when I have them I often eat more of them, and I'm hungry sooner afterwards too, so overall I eat more and it costs me more in my total food bill.

By coincidence rather than a conscious decision, I hardly eat any UPFs. If I fancy a "treat" and get a bag of sensations I eat far too many and keep going even when not hungry, or a McDonald's I want a snack within a couple of hours. Eating my normally diet I I get that and it's it's really noticeable difference.

This isn't virtue signalling or a stealth brag or whatever, but the difference when I have a "treat day" with eating UPFs vs not and my brain wanting me to eat more and more is striking.

@JustAPony

mostly proper butter from a block for frying. Sometimes lard (mostly for roast potatoes and DH prefers it to butter when making fried eggs).

I use extra virgin olive oil for anything not being cooked at a high temp.

I'm not sure the idea that processed / ultra-processed foods are always problematic really holds water. Processed foods include perfectly healthy (and even weightloss-friendly) things like kimchi, sauerkraut, pickled vegetables and canned tuna. On the other hand freshly made smoothies and juices make you eat much more sugar than you'd ever consume when you have to actually chew whole fruits and vegetables, but nobody would consider this "processed food".

Cooking at home is also processing food. If you look at the "Nova four groups of food processing" posted upthread, the description of ultra-processed foods mentions that ultra-processed foods often contain "classes of additives whose function is to make the final product palatable or more appealing such as flavours, flavour enhancers, colours, emulsifiers, and sweeteners, thickeners, and anti-foaming, bulking, carbonating, foaming, gelling, and glazing agents; and additives that prolong product duration, protect original properties or prevent proliferation of microorganisms."

Pretty much all of those things may be ingredients any chef or home cook will use as well. It all sounds artificial and industrial and scary, but most of it really isn't or certainly doesn't have to be. Examples:

• Flavour enhancers will often mean MSG, which is found naturally in lots of foods such as tomatoes, mushrooms, cheese, meat, etc. Soy sauce, fish sauce, shrimp paste and anchovies are all flavour enhancers. Also lemon juice or liquid smoke.
• Colours: could be from beetroot juice, suid ink, rasperry or spinach
• Emulsifiers: egg yolk, mustard, cream (MFGM)
• Thickeners and gelling agents: natural gums, starches, pectins, agar-agar, gelatin.

Of course there are problematic ingredients in many processed foods. On the other hand there are also additives like xanthan gum or inulin that may sound "bad" but improve the texture of many foods and come with proven health-benefits.

I'm not sure the idea that processed / ultra-processed foods are always problematic really holds water. Processed foods include perfectly healthy (and even weightloss-friendly) things like kimchi, sauerkraut, pickled vegetables and canned tuna

no one is saying that about processed foods. The focus is on ultra processed foods.

Well, the point is that nobody’s saying “processed foods” are always problematic, and it is about drawing peoples attention to that fact that things like ultra-processed smoothies and juices are actually not all that great for you.

This is interesting,thank you. So what oil should we use to cook? I generally use rapeseed oil but presumably I should change that

Cold pressed rapeseed oil is actually one of the better oils to cook with. Aldi and Lidl sell it at a really reasonable price. I also use rice bran oil.

My kids love tortilla wraps, I know they're one of the worst and tbh you can tell by how long they last before going mouldy! Does anyone know if you can make tortilla wrap dough in the bread maker?

You don’t even need a bread maker, it’s literally flour, oil, a pinch of salt and water. Mix into a dough, leave to sit for ten minutes, roll
out and cook in a frying pan.

They take hardly any time. Just make what you need when you need them.

Kids can make them easily

The majority of scientists may not, but the idea that processed is somehow bad is very wide-spread. "Ultra-processed" may be a useful shorthand, but I'm not sure it's massively useful as a scientific description / category. I can think of many cooked from scratch things that would count as UPF according to that Nova definition and Ferran Adria would probably be the king of UPFs.

I agree. The less ultra processed food I eat, the less of it I actually fancy. I’ve realised that when I get something UPF, I now enjoy it far less than I used to.

Bees are farmed in order to grow the avocadoes.

This is why some people don't consider avocados to be vegan.

Which is the point I was making, it's open to opinion, just as whether Ryvita that just has flour and water as ingredients is considered UPF.