I need a list of ULTRA processed food and processed food

[LaurieFairyCake]

Internet searching just throws up people arguing about it

Is the (agreeable) difference that processed food is completely recognisable raw ingredients turned into something

• like fruit turned into jam/yeast into marmite

And ULTRA processed food is occasional ingredients with a longer list of additives - stabilisers/gum/E numbers/ ?

Basically I want to be able to compile my own list of food to avoid - and find replacements for things I eat every day (crisps that aren't crisps like Quavers and Wotsits)

And is Ryvita a processed food - basically baked wheat ? But not ultra processed? - I eat them every day !

Seed oil?

Like sesame seed oil? Why? Isn't that just squashed sesames

The research around UPFs isn't about carcinogens. The most worrying for me was the MRI scans:

*An MRI scan showed an increase in the connections between the reward centre and areas that drive repetitive, thoughtless behaviour in just one month.

Essentially I’d become wired for cravings and mindless consumption of food; my brain was telling me to eat UPFs without even wanting them. When we repeated the MRI scan three months later, those addictive brain changes were still there.*

So UPFs are addictive and are a huge contributing cause of obesity because of this, and they also change your brain long term, if not permanently.

Look up Dr Chris Van Tulleken and UPFs which has really put the spotlight on the impact of UPFs.

I really recommend listening to the podcast A Thorough Examination on BBC Sounds with the Van Tulleken brothers on how UPF affects your body! Eye opening. Very hard to avoid completely but worth cutting down.

Ryvita is ultra proceeded along with crackers and breakfast cereals. It is not just the number of ingredients that is the issue but the processes that they go through which is important which destroy a lot of the nutrients.

Processed foods include things like cured meat or cheese. The main purpose of the processing is to prolong the food’s life or enhance its taste.

again its down to processing methods

cold pressed oils (where the oil is pressed out at 'room temperatures') are generally ok. It's a pretty natural form of getting the oil.

mechanically recovered seed oils which use high levels of heat and often chemicals to get the oil aren't good and essentially are too high in omega 6/which can have an inflammatory impact in the human body.

I guess I'm just a bit sceptical of people going around saying scary things about food - it usually turns out to be made up rubbish to sell (often ironically even more processed) products. Having looked them up they seem to be quite sensible and haven't said anything that has been widely debunked though.

There's that word "inflammation" again.

skeptoid.com/episodes/4614

Like most dietary trends, the basic concept is good (eat less processed food) but taking it to extremes won't do you any particular good. A diet most made up of fruit, vegetables, meat plus minimally processed foods like pasta, rice, tea, and freshly baked bread is healthy but it's simply not possible for many due to money and time hence reliance on shop bread and processed foods. There's no definitive list as it's a matter of interpretation but as a general rule keep ingredients list small and avoid things you can't pronounce. However with bread that long list is partly the fortifications with vitamins

I listened to this and found it interesting on upf podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/a-thorough-examination-with-drs-chris-and-xand/id1625865924

It’s kind of presumptuous to say “if you can’t pronounce them/don’t know what they are then avoid”. I can pronounce and know what they are! Agree with gogohmm generally

My rough rule of thumb is: did this exist 100 years ago? I’d say that’s when processing really ramped up.

Ryvitaor even homemade ryvita is just naked flour and water. It's been around centuries.

I am trying to reduce ultra processed foods in our family due to my research into emulsifiers and the rise in peadiatric inflammatory bowel disease. My daughter developed Crohn's at age 10 and will be a medical patient for life.

It's really important that there is a sea change in labelling and in education about what food is healthy. I listened to a radio 4 propoganda comedy show the other night and it was urging everyone to go vegan and swap dairy milk for nut or oat milk. These are swaps of unprocessed or minimally processed foods for ultraprocessed foods.

Going vegan isn't healthier if you swap meat for vegan convenience foods. And non-natural Emulsifiers (ie not egg, mustard and honey) need labelling in bold. They are rampant in gluten free foods too, which is a route many people with digestive discomfort go down to try to ease their symptoms.

Because of the farming of bees. It's up for debate.

"As the website the Conversation (and the British quiz show QI) points out, some avocados (and almonds) are produced by the work of bees, too. Honeybees pollinate many of our favorite fruits and vegetables, but in much of the United States, there are not enough bees to do this job naturally or efficiently."
www.washingtonpost.com/news/voraciously/wp/2018/10/17/sorry-vegans-if-you-dont-eat-honey-avocados-might-be-off-limits-too/#:~:text=As%20the%20website%20the%20Conversation,this%20job%20naturally%20or%20efficiently.

This.

I just limit UPFs rather than ban them. I eat ‘real food’ for my main meals ‘most’ days. So basically, I cook from scratch with whole ingredients. I occasionally have UPFs with my meal though - I LOVE Beyond Meat Mince.

If I fancy the occasional UPF snack, I go for it. I try to eat more mindfully though. I think about if I’ll really enjoy it before I have it and when I’m eating it, I think about how much I’m enjoying it. I find if I stop and think about it, I’m quite happy to just wait until my next meal.

Everything in moderation.

It's to do with farming of bees...

"As the website the Conversation (and the British quiz show QI) points out, some avocados (and almonds) are produced by the work of bees, too. Honeybees pollinate many of our favorite fruits and vegetables, but in much of the United States, there are not enough bees to do this job naturally or efficiently."

www.washingtonpost.com/news/voraciously/wp/2018/10/17/sorry-vegans-if-you-dont-eat-honey-avocados-might-be-off-limits-too/#:~:text=As%20the%20website%20the%20Conversation,this%20job%20naturally%20or%20efficiently.

Right, this is exactly what I didn't want

If even on here people are disagreeing about whether Ryvita is processed or ultra processed I am FUCKED

I do not want to 'have to use my own judgement' or take a side over whether Ryvita is or not

it's just like those amateur epidemiologists during the pandemic - I don't want to have to discern information or become a fucking nutritionist !

Isn't this actually identifiable?!?

Even that (really helpful) Nova research paper doesn't list actual foods - it just points you in the direction of what is likely to be

I think basically I want every food labelled that's not obviously naturall- UPF or PF

This is interesting,thank you. So what oil should we use to cook? I generally use rapeseed oil but presumably I should change that. Olive oil shouldn’t be cooked at high temperatures… what’s your go to for cooking?
thanks!

It's because it's a arbitrary classification basically... You HAVE to make up your own mind.

If you want to be absolutely sur, make your own, from organic rye flour and water.

Otherwise, just crack on and keep eating it.

As PPs have said it's things like the random ingredients in supermarket tortillas that are the "issue" and makes the UPF.

Also, not all E numbers are bad. Beetroot juice, for example, has an E number. It's just a system for listing ingredients used in very small amounts.

Perhaps there should be a health campaign which identifies UPF on the label.

I think it's pretty impossible in the UK to completely avoid UPFS. Unless you are at home 24/7 to eat or are very, very, very organised. I've tried, could manage it quite easily until I was out at lunchtime.

I aimed for 80% whole foods, 20% other stuff and also cut out as much as possible seed oils, and tried to increase my omega 3 vs o.6 ratio. Thought it was a new fab but lost 2 stone! I've been lax the last few months and put 10lbs back on.

To answer your question I cut out completely sliced bread, pasta, wheat products like cereals, sugar pretty much except for honey/dark chocolate. I swapped veg oil for butter and lard and dripping, and used EVO for dressings etc. Any ready meals, things like supermarket pies, anything you cook in the oven then serve. I did eat the occasional wrap as they were less bad than say a prepared salad (dressings) if I was out and needed something.

Currently slowly going back to that way of eating and hopefully this 10lb will bugger back off. But it's incredibly difficult to achieve 100% of the time. You struggle eating out or on the move, takeaway is a no no due to oils and you are pretty much left with a very, very limited choice.

Like most dietary trends, the basic concept is good (eat less processed food) but taking it to extremes won't do you any particular good. A diet most made up of fruit, vegetables, meat plus minimally processed foods like pasta, rice, tea, and freshly baked bread is healthy but it's simply not possible for many due to money and time hence reliance on shop bread and processed foods.

Absolutely this!!

I am so sick of all these diets saying you shouldn’t eat this and that, just to make money. When the basic concept is the same.

All of them say to eat whole foods - which are things that have been picked from the trees or ground (fruits and veg), taken from an animal (meat, fish) or slightly changed in some way (bread).
The good is what it is - an apple is made up of just an apple, a potato is just a potato etc.

My stance on UPF is can I name all of the ingredients in it and can I make it myself at home and reduce the number of those ingredients.
E.g. Bolognaise sauce in a jar - can I name all of the ingredients - No. so it’s UPF.
Can I make it at home and reduce the number of ingredients - yes. So I can make it less processed.

If it’s something like wotsits that I can’t make at home (or ryvetta) then I’ll eat them as is and not feel guilty.

I think there's too much debate to get a definitive list. Sweets, biscuits, chocolate, ready meals, fake meat and meat products like chicken nuggets or sausage rolls are the most obvious ones. There's more of a grey area for things like say pasta sauce, the ingredients are all recognisable and I could make it at home but I've never needed to add sugar to my homemade sauce to make it palatable or citric acid to make it shelf stable.

*McDonalds burgers

Not an advocate for McDonald's, but only the bun and sauce is UPF in a burger *

I'm not an advocate for the Golden Arches either. As for their burger not being UPF, I'd count 'meat' that is mechanically recovered and needs to be bleached before it can be put back into the food chain as really quite processed. Even their iceberg lettuce is washed in albeit very dilute bleach.

The epitome of UPF in my opinion.

If you want to eliminate any doubt OP the only way is to buy single ingredients and go from there.

Or, easier would be to just think that the majority of the time you will prepare food from scratch so that on the occasions you want/need a convenience food that you don't have to wrangle over the decision because it's forming such a minimal part of your diet.

Due to allergies I find it easier day-to-day not to buy any foods with multiple ingredients as I'd have to check them regularly. The only ultra-processed food I ever buy is breakfast cereal. Then things like pasta that are processed but minimal ingredients. And dairy (milk, butter, cheese, yoghurt) which is all processed but good for us.