"He's in top sets for everything"

[isitanywonderthat]

How do people know this? Genuine question, I have 2 dc now in secondary school and I haven't a clue what art they are in for anything. Never have at secondary or primary. Never been given this information and never asked.

How do all the mners with DC in top sets have this information?

Kids will click on to what sets they are in. ‘top of the class’ is what always confuses me though. I work in a school and we would never say that or make comparisons like that to parents. We know where individual children are at obviously, but we don’t actively rank them. Any school that does would be quite archaic.

That's awful! When I used to teach, I used to rotate my TA around all groups and would do the same myself. The more able children need to be pushed and challenged by adult input. It was quite unusual though as that most of my colleagues used TAs to support the lower ability children.

I can tell from his timetable.
My son is at an 8 form entry school where half the class code for top set is AAX or AAY (2 top
Sets)

You don't need to grill an observant child about where they sit or encourage them to compare themselves - the information just naturally trickles back. Johnny has a new green coat, Eva is on orange books now, we had ice cream for pudding, I was a lead learner in maths today. It all becomes quickly evident.

Not all subjects are set either. Set subjects are maths, English, PE only in the younger years. PE sounded strange to me too but having ability groups means that the less sporty feel more confident as they are less likely to let down their team.

Whats a set?
you mean high/low levels? its based on what GCSEs your being put in for.

I was in high for science.
I was in high for english
I was in low for maths
I was below low for french so it was dropped completely

I dont think anything else had 'high and low splits'.

At my kids old primary, top set (top table) got the extended work as well as the other class work. All the kids knew who the top table were, the average kids and the less academic ones.

At secondary, they split the kids into 2 streams here on ability, then class names like Ma1 is Maths set 1. Also teachers apparently regularly refer to them being top set with things like ‘as top set, we expect you to...... or ‘you’re top set so...... ‘ Teachers sometimes say it to parents at parents evening too in terms of expectations.

Children do know though.
And ‘top of the class’ has always been
the way my own dcs have referred to it. That’s despite me never mentioning it that way btw. I prefer effort. And when you have a child who finds it easy, they can be ‘top of the class’ with little effort.

I don't recognise a lot of what some of you are describing. I've just looked at their timetables and there are no codes on them, just rescuer name and room number.

At primary no one talked about tables or whatever, not even the really nosey parents who would grill their kids about who in their class was on a red or an orange traffic light that day.

I said it was a genuine question and it is. Perhaps my DCs schools just don't encourage this kind of comparison.

Teacher name not rescuer, my phone keeps glitching.

Sounds like maybe your child's school only set for maths. I'm a secondary teacher. I have no idea which subjects are set in mine. I think maths is, but not sure if there are any others.

And I'm not sure why I'm getting digs from some of you alluding that my children are thick.

There are no concerns about their academic ability and their teachers are happy with their own progress.

I've just never has any interest in how other people's children are doing so no obviously it hasn't come up because why would it?

Its not comparison.

It's about ensuring children learn at the correct pace. Do you know how frustrating it is for bright children to be taught at the same level as those who are not bright?

Sets are so they can learn at the pace they deserve to be educated at.

You know if your child is bright, if they took to reading and maths concepts very easily. If they are taken out for intervention you can work out if it's for challenge or extra support by the other students in the group if your child tells you.

At my secondary our core subjects are generally set by ability but there are exceptions. X1 top 30 higher ability, Y1 next 30 and so on.

If someone is lacking self confidence then we might move them to a lower set so that they can be at the top in that one and then move them back up the following year.

Students might be moved because of bullying and friendship issues.

Students might be moved to balance out the year groups ie X and Y.

Students might be moved to deal with behaviour or so that they only have male teachers or female where possible depending on their needs. For lots of children that have experience DV from parents they often learn better with the opposite sex teacher than the abuser and can be quite volatile if not especially if it is fresh or they are going through the court system.

If someone starts mid year then they will be put where there is a space.

It shouldn't matter which set your child is in they should be supported and challenged regardless of ability.

Perhaps your school just don’t have any sets? I do think as a parent I’d want to know the general set up and ethos of the school though. Why don’t you just ask your child? There’s a difference between being interested and being competitive and ‘grilling them’

My school only has sets for maths and French. My best friend teaches in a much larger mixed comp - the whole school is streamed September in yr7, and they never again mix with the "other half"!

I'm a secondary teacher here.

The language around this issue drives me wild. I actually sit and seethe in meetings where colleagues refer to kids as 'lower ability' or 'lower ability' sets. If we wouldn't use that language to their parents, don't talk about kids that way.

Setting is pretty grim. A wide range of evidence points towards mixed ability classes having the best outcomes for ALL learners, not just the supposed 'top'.

Sets are not for comparison, they are not a competition. Sets are there so that students can all be taught to the best of their ability. It's not going to do anyone any good if Mary who finds the lessons so easy that she's getting the work done in 5 minutes and bored for the rest of the hour is getting the same work as Bobby who's struggling with the lessons and can't keep up just because Alex who's in the middle and is able to do the work but takes a bit longer is perfectly catered for. Nobody benefits from that, Mary ends up bored and not bothering, Bobby finds it too hard and gives up and Alex isn't getting the attention they need because the teacher is too busy trying to help Bobby or motivate Mary.

It's not a comparison, different children have different abilities, it's better for all children to be in sets so that they can all reach their full potential.

I think it's important to have some idea of a) your children's aptitude and b) the level at which they're being taught though.

As @alphapie pointed out- if your children are bright, they will get frustrated and bored by work set for those who find that subject more challenging. Why would you not want to ensure that your children are getting the most out of their education?

Our school email when they move sets, the kids all know and it’s written on their timetables and front of exercise books hidden in the ref for that lesson. I think it’s teachers initials and the set number.

The biannual school testing report does though.

It has each subject listed then my childs score, the average scores in his year, the range of scores for his year and the range of average scores range for his age range nation wide.

My DS is well above the average and at the top end of the range for his school for almost everything (usually only falling to in 'average' for 1 or two subjects - at this time its RE and PE) and well above his age range average nationally in almost everything.

So test results reflect that he is in the top percentage of the year/class, teachers dont have physically say he is 'top' its not based on teachers opinions.

I was top of science in my year (test result wise) in secondary but my science teacher HATED me because they where conviced I must cheat to get such good scores while not 'listening' well enough in class (because I already knew it and was well past the level being taught) if you asked the teacher I would not have been 'top' but the results dont lie.

On the flip side I did not need a teacher to tell me I was failing French, after 3 years I could barely count to ten... no matter how hard I tried languages just dont stick in my head test results clearly showed I was a 'lost cause' lol.

I understand the sentiment behind this but that isn't how real life works. When I comes to applying for university they will basically be competing against others for places. The same when they apply for grad schemes. If they go into medicine at the end of their degree they are ranked against the whole cohort and the top students get to choose the most desirable places to star their training.

I remember being in set 2/5 for maths at the beginning of secondary, I really wanted ti be in set 1 so I studied really hard to make sure i got the best marks I possibly could to move up a set and I was successful.

One of my children has a slightly weaker subject, he wanted to get greater depth across the board in his ks2 sats so he did extra practice for that subject and that work payed off.

One of mine wants to go to quite a selective secondary so she is working hard to try and obtain one of those places, essentially she needs to score higher than her peers to gain a place.

It's not necessary to 'grill' children, or for schools to 'encourage comparison'. Many bright observant children just figure it out themselves and tell parents without prompting. DS knew he was one of the youngest so maybe that had something to do with it.

I don't know about all schools but the schools my 3 went to (3 different schools) only set for maths

When I was in school, from Year 8 you'd be in in 1, 2, 3 or A, B or C for Maths, English and Science. A and 1 were top, then B and 2, then C and 3. A and 1 also did a second European language whereas the other classes didn't. Not sure how it works these days.