Please help me with bedtime routines before I go insane

[StressfulBedtimes]

dinner and bedtime in my house is not working and I really don’t know how to organise it with all the DC of such different ages
Could anyone please help me with a schedule or something that might work, I’ve tried a few and nothing has worked

So we have 4 DC; 13, 11, 6 & 4
The 6 year old has ADHD and gets up for the day anywhere between 4 & 5am (yes he’s medicated, no matter how much melatonin he has this is what time he gets up) so he is ready for dinner and bed early

The 6&4 year olds share a room (no other possible way to arrange the house) and the 4 year old is honestly horrendous at bedtimes, horrendous! Can take 3 hours of me having to sit in the room otherwise she will wreck the place or she’ll be up and down 1636383836 times, she’s horrific

So the small kids are ready to eat at around 5, this is far too early for me and the big kids and DH isn’t even gone from work at this time, so atm I’m feeding them at 5, DH is getting in at 6:30ish by which time I’m well into bedtime with the small kids, which can go on until 10pm, so DH will want to eat as soon as he comes in, the big kids would be happy to eat around 7 and I don’t get to eat until the bedtime hell is over at 10ish and the big kids are then going to bed so I don’t actually see them

It’s just chaos, the oven on every 10 mins, someone in the bath, someone screaming, me attempting to have one of the smalls in bed while I’m ‘settling’ the other with milk and stories but just people everywhere and screaming all over the house

I can’t cope anymore
How can we arrange meals etc that fit everyone??

Dinner us 5pm. Eat then or reheat in the microwave. Big kids eat with you or dad - their choice. (We tried to do lots of stews that would stay warm in the slow cooker, or pasta that reheats well, or something with veg and mash potato. Things like 'something with chips' was saved until weekend when we could all eat together. Veg can be cooked fresh quite easily)
As for the actual bedtime bit - I empathise but don't have any additional strategies you haven't tried. Only thing I can suggest for 4 year old is to try something completely different......you don't have to go to bed but you do have to lie on the sofa, or you don't have to sleep bit you do need to read books in bed with a head torch. - something that gives you back an evening. And keeps you sane. And don't stress what others do.....it's what works for you. Maybe a camp bed on the floor of your room for one? Or one falls asleep in your bed and is moved to their bed once asleep.

I would shift dinner til 630 for everyone, DH can eat as soon as he's home. Hope that over the summer this means your younger two get used to it. Give them an apple and a drink at 1630. If your youngest is taking 3 hours to get to bed, then she seemingly isn't tired. Youngest ones eat dinner in pj's, have half an hour quiet time after dinner, teeth and bed.

The youngest would take 3 hours to go to sleep whether put to bed at 7 or at 9, we’ve tried each end of the spectrum

Ive also tried later dinner times but they honestly cry and scream none stop for food even after essentially another lunch when they get home (literally sandwich/bagel/toast, fruit, yoghurt, crisps etc) when they get home and I end up tussling with them to get them out of the fridge etc, so I just gave up and made dinner time earlier so I’m not shouting at them to stop taking food

A camp bed in another room might work, although I’m sure it’s cause ww3 about who gets to sleep where

Sorry I’m not trying to poo poo on suggestions, just saying why certain things are the way they are, I really appreciate replies

With my 5 year old I say - I'll be with you between 7:00 - 8:00 then I'm going. She can draw and or look at books in her room until she goes to sleep. She has a wall light by her bed she can turn off when she is ready.

I would also shift everything later. I think a 6 year old doesn’t need more than 9hrs often. So 8pm-5am, 7pm-4am.
My 2 year old is a terrible sleeper, I started bedtime at 8.20pm, and he’s just settled at almost 10pm. He will be up by 6-6.30am.
I think many just don’t need much sleep.

For the Four year old, surely it’s better you all eat together at 6.30pm, then you can do bedtime for 8pm. If he faffs for 2+ hours, at least then you have eaten, seen older children, etc. And 6 year old might only need 9-10 hrs, so he he goes to sleep at 8-8.30pm he might lie in until 6am

Why is the 4 yo so bad at bedtime? Just checking she doesn't nap? Is she overtired? Does she go to preschool?

Could the 6 yo share with the big kids for a bit, while you try to sort the 4 yo? Remove dangerous stuff and leave her to it.

I have 3 here and they do everything at the same time but they're close in age. I would also feel like I'd want to spend time with the older kids, so I feel you.

Bedtime did used to be 8ish, it didn’t make get ups any earlier but it did mean the horrendous behaviour between school and bedtime was longer, it also meant the big kids didn’t get much peace from them before they had to start settling to bed which is why we brought it forward
But maybe that is the only way and I’ll just have to suffer through the day times longer

I am aware I sound very negative but I just really can’t see a way out of this hell
We’re actually considering living separately and separating the DC this is is affecting us that much

@strandedabroad she doesn’t nap no, she goes to primary school nursery setting 12-3pm
Shes honestly just very naughty in general, she’s learned everything she knows from the one with ADHD except without the excuse (or the meds unfortunately!)

Contact your health visitor regarding help with bedtime for the four year old. They may be able to put you in for courses which offer some help with bedtime routines etc. I've been on one myself many many moons ago.
Would a reward chart help? Is it worth introducing a routine? So bath, book and bed? But being firm with the time you are leaving? Might take a while but is worth giving it a few weeks to see what happens.

What about a half way point.

dinner at 6.30pm, snack before if they are hungry. Younger two then go straight up to bed by 7.15pm but get until 8pm in their bedroom to get themselves in pjs and can then read, draw, audible with headphones. That way you and older ones get 45 mins extra time, and then you go up to settle and story at 8pm.

Have you got any money? Could you get help in the evening?

I think re food, get it on the table at 5 and the bigger ones can reheat when they're ready.

I think go with the needs of the littlest. She won't be 4 forever.

Oh gosh I don’t know if we still have a HV, I haven’t seen one for years and years
She has a sticker chart on her bedroom wall (empty) and we already do a bedtime routine which has been the same since I don’t even know when; milk and one cartoon, bath, story in bed, goodnight - the only thing that has changed is her reaction to it tbh

oh sorry that was to @iloveyankeecandle

@Caspianberg that is interesting we’ve never tried it with a sort of break in between I always just do the whole bath and bedtime at once - I’m going to have to give this a go I think!

Have you asked her why she doesn't like bedtime?
Ring your doctors and ask for the health visitor. They should point you in the right direction. Children under five come under a health visitors care.

No I haven’t actually asked her why she doesn’t like bedtime, I will ask and report back on this

I’ve just finished bedtime, the older DC are already in bed and I’m just going to heat up my meatballs and cry myself to sleep

@StressfulBedtimes I just hopped on to give you a virtual hug because I can sense in your words just how much this is affecting you. Mum guilt is so consuming and I know it must be really difficult for you trying to see the older ones but not getting a minute to! Could you do something with them a bit earlier before all bedtime he’ll breaks loose? That’s way at least you know that’s ticked off your list and your focus can go on the little ones however awful the 4 year old may be behaving. Also, make sure you’re stomach isn’t empty as it can make you more stressed and tired if you’re battling through all this and having you’re dinner in the end. You can’t pour from an empty cup as they say so look after yourself first. I always find myself more impatient and less tolerant when hungry. Also, when DH comes in, once he’s eaten can he help with little ones. If you both take one little one each it would be easier and fairer?

Sorry for my typos and “you’re” in the wrong places - stupid phone

Divide and conquer with your dh? So he does bedtime when he gets home while you have time with the older dc? One of the little ones in their room, one in your room with a dvd of a kids movie? Push dinner slightly (say 5.30 or 6pm) and you eat with all four kids?
Just chucking things out there! I do remember the years of counting down until bedtime, but it genuinely gets easier as they get older.

@StressfulBedtimes

Hugs.

Try a complete change to see if that gets you all out of the habit of bedtimestress.

Could the big ones put the little ones to bed?

Do the little ones want to sleep together on a mattress on the floor?

During the day ask them to plan their bedtime.

Anything that reduces the stress is worth it. (Miniplasidr had a lovely bedroom that they didn't sleep in for years! )

Do you have to do a bath before bed? I always do baths earlier in the day as 2 of my 3 kids get completely over stimulated by the bath, it would never work as a lead up to bed.

I found age 4 was when Dd has a massive leap in imagination, started having proper nightmares where she could describe what had happened and went through phases of being too scared to go to sleep. That might be something that's happening that your Dd can't explain?

Can you tell us more about what happens from the time they finish school? The thing is, this routine is clearly not working for you or for them any more, so something needs to change. Especially if they want play dates or start activities after school. I would have thought they are old enough to have a conversation about it, show you're putting some faith in them to behave. Along the lines of: You're getting older, you're going into Mr/s X's class after the summer. I think you're old enough to join us for meals at 630. When you get home from school, I will give you a snack, you'll need to do x and y. At 5pm, I want you washed and into pj's. If you're done by 530, you can watch tv until dinner (so you can get dinner in peace). We'll eat at 630, then you can play quietly upstairs whilst we clean up. Then teeth story and sleep.

Why are they so hungry when they get home from school? Are they not eating any lunch?

Isn't the 4 year old a bit too old for milk before bed?

Isn't the 4 year old a bit too old for milk before bed?

No way! My 15 year old still fancies a pint of milk before bed most nights 🥛

Hi @StressfulBedtimes

I also have 4 children similar ages and one is disabled.

Could you not all eat at 5-.30 that's what we do and then my teens have a large supper around 9pm. Cereal or toast or cheese and crackers etc. So I'm only cooking once. Would that be an option?

Then we carry on with a younger DC bedtime routine and the teens amuse themselves or one of us will take them to a hobby etc while the other parent does younger DC bedtime then another night we will switch.

It so hard. Generally I'm not done with disabled dc bedtime until around 10 as I have to lay with them to get them to sleep / do therapy etc but audible on my iPad with headphones was a game changer so at least I can mentally switch off for a bit. Would something like that be an option.

Can't DH do bedtime one night while you get out to the gym or something to clear your head? Do you work? Would sleeping in the day be an option for you to rest more?

Hope things get better for you, it's really hard I know!

It sounds like you're putting your 4yo to bed too early. It's a shame that your 6yo needs to go to bed so early but I don't think you can force the 4yo to do the same. Also you need to allow her to succeed and be "the good one" as it sounds like you've labeled her as "the difficult one" and that's where she'll stay. The sticker chart for example...why leave it up as an empty reminder to her that she's failed? Either get rid of it or give her smaller, more achievable goals so she gets a chance to succeed and see herself as the good one and build on that. You could look into gentle parenting eg biglittlefeelings on Instagram for some tips.

The suggestion that your older kids need time away from the little ones or even another house is absurd. When will that need end? Will you be sending your 10yo and 8yo to bed at 6:30pm so that their older siblings can have some peace and quiet!? Because they'll always be the annoying younger siblings. If you could afford 2 houses then maybe get a bigger place so the 6yo and 4yo can have their own rooms.