Are American schooling expectations in films the same in real life?

[Offandonagain]

I find that Typically in American high school type films such as She’s all that, 10 things, fresh Prince, American pie, Spider-Man etc there is a big emphasis on going to college after school…. Grades, scholarships, summer schools, locations.

It seems to be a bigger deal that the UK, and you’re a failure if you don’t go. Hope true is this though?

Also, are us unis better both academically and socially than uk ones?… not sure if that question can be answered

Yep... Only the ivy's will do! The parents make Britain's pushiest parents look like pussy cats.. Also networking, living in the perfect neighbourhood, kids only allowed very well connected friends etc... They make us feel like shit to be honest, hate having to make an effort with them when them come...

My son was repeating what the girl told him. He didn't say she would go straight into hanging out her shingle and practicing law. The on-the-job lawyer training is very weird to me and explains a lot.

I dated a guy (here in the US) thru him applying/being accepted to law school and getting his law degree. He did intern with a law firm but I can't remember if it was during or after law school.

I contacted and hired some solicitors in England to help me when I was a co-executor for my parent's will. They were completely different in attitude, work ethic than the American lawyers I have worked with over here.

@Ravenclawdropout yes exactly, a v good set of points — the U.K. has a fairly standardised National Curriculum with a lot of content specification all through the education system — much more so than in the US. Despite our own issues with variation across schools and areas, it’s a lot more homogenous; and there are national frameworks for just about everything (that’s why we can do the data analysis on our applicants to adjust for so many factors).
The curriculum content is much more standardised — if someone turns up with an A* in A-level maths, whatever exam board it is you can be pretty sure of what they have covered all up until that point. There’s a lot more variation in the US system.

Interesting comments re breadth of education in these different countries. As a Scot who went to a Scottish university, yes the number of subjects studied narrowed towards the end of school, but uni was more like the description given by a pp of the American system. I wanted to study psychology but I did this as well as a number of other subjects I chose at the start of uni. In my first two years for example I did history, social anthropology, philosophy and computing among other subjects! It was only going into your third year you selected what course to go on and do your degree in and only those with the right marks got chosen. I did do a degree in psychology, but many who started uni with that as their intention ended up doing a degree in something altogether different, either because they found something they were more interested in or they didn't get the grades. Also, degrees in Scottish unis are typically attained in 4 years like America rather than 3.

There are two main degrees in the us undergraduate system. A B.A is a Bachelor of Arts and it tends to be associated with majors that focus on a Liberal Arts education with a breadth of knowledge. A B.S. is a Bachelor of Science. It tends to be associated with more technical fields, but can also indicate a more in-depth study. For example, my economics major offered both a BA and a BS and they had different course requirements.

Historically, the actual field of study is often unimportant because the point of university was creating a well-rounded individual who knew how to think and could handle the work-load. That is perhaps no longer as true, but the value of a liberal arts education as part of your specific field of study remains. Just knowing programming or accounting or chemistry without also learning about literature, language, and art would not be seen as a complete education.

I think the US system has worked out very well for my DS. He's about to start his final year of High School and although he's always been very Math & Science focused, over the last year or two he's developed a real interest in politics and economics.
If he'd had to choose 3 subjects at 16, I'm sure he'd have gone with Math, Chemistry and Physics but now he's able to go into his Senior year and choose economics and world politics on top of the math, sciences, English and Latin that he's already taking.
I know this wouldn't suit everyone, I was desperate to drop Science and German at 16!, but for a lot of students it keeps their options open for a little longer.
He won't really have to start specializing until he's around 20, assuming he goes to College in the US.

This has been a really nice and educational thread! I wonder: for UK-based Mumsnetters, given the choice, would you stick with the UK school system/experience? Does a more American-style academic system appeal to you? Or a mix-and-match version with elements of both?

but for a lot of students it keeps their options open for a little longer.
He won't really have to start specializing until he's around 20, assuming he goes to College in the US.

This was crucial for my DD, who did really well at everything she studied in high school but didn't have a clue what she wanted to study at university. She thought psychology sounded interesting, so she tried that, and discovered that it was neurobiology that she really liked. She's done two of four years and is now majoring in neurobiology with a minor concentration in data science. I'm so glad she had some time to explore her academic interests. She's on campus this summer, doing a paid internship conducting neurobiology research.

Having experienced both (4 years UK secondary, 3 years US), I massively preferred a) the breadth of the US courses available and b) the variety and welcoming attitude of the extra curriculars, which meant that I, considered very unsporty in the UK because I wasn’t good at netball, went on to compete at States for my sport. I was a pretty unhappy teen in the UK and moving to America completely turned me around.

The downside for me was that the classes were way too easy (and this includes the AP and college classes I took) so not satisfying in the same way as A Levels. I took a college Psychology course which earned me college credit and all the tests were multiple choice. No essays at all. It always felt like everything was very light touch.

Has anybody pointed out that there isn't actually a UK education system ad Scotland has its own system in schools and universities that has some things in common with the US like a less specialised senior High School curriculum and four year degree courses which allow several subjects to be studied in the first two years.
Apologies if this has already been covered earlier.

Yes - lots of posts discussing precisely this in detail!

Yes sorry I should have said English rather than UK secondary. My kids are now going through the Scottish system and I don’t really understand Highers etc at all - though we are some way off it!

Well... that's an invitation to comment. So yes I confused "going to Uni" with "completing Uni", but I'm also thinking since 1980s to now, rather than a snapshot of just 2021. The % of USA population that has obtained at least a bachelor's degree hasn't changed much for a long time. Lots of people start 'college' but never finish. Table From wikipedia. I'm pretty sure those aren't exclusive categories, so basically 37% have at least a bachelor's degree, rather than 37% have no higher than a BD.

Here goes, my best effort to tally the Uni history of many relatives age 18-30, and one of best friend's kids... It's working out as about 50:50 of the young people I'm sure of, if they even started Uni. 6/16 who have completed a first degree, 37.5%. Familiar sort of statistic...

~22yo MT : nail technician, makes good money. No Uni
~29yo ED: never went to Uni, probably working
~24yo DH: didn't go to Uni. Not sure if he's working.
~28yo BW : didn't go to Uni ,is working
~23yo RB: no Uni, makes good money in sales
~25yo EB: no Uni, makes good money in sales
~24yo DB: joined army, I suspect Uni hopes after Army
~25yo HB: joined army, I suspect Uni hopes after Army
~20yo SH: started musical college of some sort
~21yo HB: completing a degree
~25yo AG: completed a Uni degree in STEM, probably working
~23yo JC: completed a business degree
~29yo PC: got Uni degree, 2 kids, speech therapist.
~24yo EB: degree + a master's (teacher)
20yo AM: at Ivy League doing STEM, will probably do postgrad things
~29yo KT: 99% sure she got a degree, not sure in what

Unclear
~18yo NS: not sure, working yes
~20yo D? : not sure, unlikely with her background
~22yo HB: not sure, unlikely with her background
~20yo NG: not sure, his brother graduated from Uni, though
~19yo AJ: not sure, unlikely with her background
~18yo LB: unclear but I'll be astonished if not headed to Uni
~18yo D?: his parents will much want him to go to Uni, but I suspect he'll refuse

The curriculum content is much more standardised — if someone turns up with an A* in A-level maths, whatever exam board it is you can be pretty sure of what they have covered all up until that point. There’s a lot more variation in the US system.

That's not really true.

AP coursework is standardised, developed and examined by the College Board, not by individual high schools or states. PSAT/NMSQT, ACT, and SAT exams are standardised tests administered nationwide, so there is a built in quality control element.

The rigour of courses developed by high school departments is quality tested by student participation in the nationwide tests. A math department that allows students to coast along will eventually be exposed when students get lower test scores in the math section of the national exams. Data on school performance is available, and dips in performance can be noted. Not all students taking the national level exams will be taking AP coursework. They can still be expected to perform well (within expected parameters) if material has been covered properly.

My take has always been that American students are under less stress and pressure than UK students, because we have a much longer period of time to get it right (or wrong).

You have three years (since you apply to university after your third year of high school) of coursework, quizzes, tests, and class participation that all count toward your GPA. There are discrete events like the SAT or AP tests, but they are a few additional data points among an ocean of other data points. And all of this is supported by your extracurriculars, your volunteering, etc. You never have a moment where you say "This is it: all the money's on the line" in the way that students might with GCSEs or A-levels.

You'd better not get an attack of senioritis in that last year all the same, or your offer can be rescinded.

A very ambitious and capable student entering high school will be very aware that every piece of work handed in counts. Thinking of one of my DDs here, who knew she had blown her chances of being a valedictorian when she got a single B in a test in her freshman year in a very competitive high school. Yes, she definitely had other avenues to compensate for not getting that medal along with her parchment. But it was a bummer at the time.

Another DD had all As heading into her senior year with valedictorian or not hanging on her results of that semester. It was an intense four months, but we had a very jolly Christmas after all.

Then there was the wait for rejection letters all Spring

University competition is so fierce for so few ‘name brand’ places that universities have to use criteria like extracurriculars, volunteering, and internships to determine who gets a place. Excellent grades in a wide variety of AP classes and high standardized test scores are not enough.

For my DCs, getting a large dollop of financial aid was extremely important. I had just got divorced the year after DD1's freshman year in university, but even without that, she and all the other DCs were aware from the start of high school of the 66 schools accepting students on a need-blind basis and offering to meet full demonstrated financial need of all accepted students, and that's where they aimed, along with the very good state flagship.