Not claiming benefits under my roof

[Whatdoyouthink23]

I'm just wondering people's thoughts on this .

So the person is 21 years old . He lives at home. He has complex autism He gets pip. Which his mum is appointee off.

I don't know her income. But I know she has a job and half the rent is paid by housing benefit she pays the other half of it.

As I said he gets pip. But its very hard for him to access the money. As she controls it all. my daughter ends up paying for him when they are out.

When it was mentioned that he wanted ti make a claim for UC . His mum went mad saying he's not claiming UC under her roof and if he did she would kick him out. He just wants to claim so he has some of his own money.

Is it because she thinks if he claims UC then she won’t get much HB
I’m pretty sure that if either of them get the Higher rate of care for PIP
Then it won’t affect any HB she gets as they disregard another working person / adults earnings if they get the higher rate of PIP care

she would probably find she may have to pay more council tax though

Is there any way she would be getting more benefits because she claims she has to care for him? That would be a good reason to not want him to claim.

I think you need to be careful here. From what you said at first I thought she was keeping his money and he was going without. But from your updates it sounds like she's meeting his needs but maybe not his wants.

When my autistic DD was a young adult she was quite put out at the fact I got 'her' money and wanted it herself. But the fact is, she would have spent it all on icecream and pokemon cards on the day she go it. Then I'd have to find the money for buses, clothes, toiletries etc for her for the rest of the month. So I used 'her' money to pay for the things she needed and the small amount left over was her pin money. This was often topped up with family resourses because we could, but I can easily see how someone on a low income can't do that.

Nowadays with spiralling costs and cuts to benefits it's entirely possible that there is nothing left in the kitty to buy food while out. It might all be going on providing him with clothes, bus fares, food and roof over his head.

And maybe her reaction is because, like my DD, he sees his benefits as pocket money rather than money to live on. And she knows that if he claims in his own right she'll get nothing towards to costs of supporting him.

I agree that this could be financial abuse and is a cause for concern. You need to look into this further to make sure abuse isn't happening. If it is then it needs to be reported.

But that implys he's never allowed any wants at all. Surely he should be allowed to go swimming now abd then. Or to the cinema now and then. Get a cold drink on a very hot day . There is a social need as well.

Yes he should be allowed if there's money available for that. Is there money available for that or is it all being used up meeting basic needs? You can't go swimming now and then if that means you can't pay your rent now and then.

If she has surplus money that she is keeping from him, then yes that is a problem and shouldn't be happening. If he can't buy a cold drink on a hot day while she is down the pub with her mates, then yes something needs to be done. But life is very hard now and for many families there just isn't enough in the pot for wants.

Even if he can't manage money himself, and his mum needs the money simply to keep him in food and clothes etc, he needs 'pocket money'.

It sounds as though it would be a really bad idea for the PIP to be paid to him, but someone needs to intervene to make sure he has some money to socialise with.

Is there an Autism organisation near you that might advise how best they can approach this, OP?

It doesn’t matter what money is in what pot where … the fact is, the PIP is his money and he should receive it. His mum can then tell him how much board she’d like, it has to be an agreeable amount, not him paying for the whole lot. He can choose to pay no board, then mum has to decide what to do next. The whole set up is wrong, it’s financial abuse and control, it’s immoral and illegal.

There will be criteria though for him to have an appointee to manage his PIP. You can’t just say that because someone has a disability someone else needs to be appointed to manage the benefit on his behalf. There will be protocols to follow, capability assessments etc.

If he has an appointee then presumably his disability is significant. You say he will never be able to live independently, presumably that means he lacks capacity? Given he doesn’t have a physical disability.

If the PIP is going towards household costs then him having access to all of it with the ability to spend it all on the day he receives it means that they could potentially be plunged into poverty.

While PIP is there for the needs of the person with a disability, often those needs are that the person needs money to live on because they are e.g. out of work or unable to do a high paying job. While pip isn’t intended as a part of one’s income and as such is not means tested, the truth is that for many, without PIP they would be plunged into poverty.

How is your DD involved with this man OP?

I don't (think) she's struggling so much that it's a bad worry. She gos to gym ect . So it can't be that bad . And if it was that bad why is she threatening to kick him out if he claims uc.

He does not drink. When I say he cant get a drink on a hot day . I mean he can't pop in a shop for a small bottle of water.

Thing is though, living costs money. The higher rate of the daily living component of PIP is £92.40/week, and that assumes he actually gets the higher rate which he may not.

If he claims UC then her claim will be affected because the household income will increase. This might be why she says that he won’t be able to live there if he claims UC. Because if he has all the UC to himself her money will go down and they won’t be able to afford to live.

You say there’s a brother as well? What are his circumstances?

I agree you need to be careful here, you’re only hearing one side. ‘I’ll be kicked out if I claim UC myself’ could well be a mangled interpretation of ‘we won’t be able to afford to live here if you claim UC yourself and spend it all’.

Is there any involvement from an outside agency such as a charity support worker for this man? In the past GP’s are a pretty good starting point to get access to charities and organisations that provide support workers.

My son claimed uc and the only thing it done was deduct 12.00 from the HB. I'm not saying she is entirely wrong he 100% should not be in charge all that money. But to it to be so controlled that he can't even get a cold drink on a hot day is just wrong. But she can go to the gym.

With her son she gets pip for him as well.

You’re right to be concerned @Whatdoyouthink23 but I don’t think you or your dd are the right people to be tackling this and you need to make your concerns known to people who can be impartial , professional and carry some weight when talking to his mother. I’m not sure of your relationship with him to be able to intervene as you both are.

Are you absolutely sure this man hasn’t got the money to spend on a bottle of water and it isn’t that he does in fact have a weekly allowance that he’s already spent? It seems odd to me to top up someone’s Oyster card but not provide them with any spending money for instance plus the fact that you’ve said he would just spend money until it’s gone.

I'd put money on her already claiming universal credit for him. It won't affect her as it's a completely separate claim and could be around £200 a week if he gets high rate.

This seriously needs reporting, I'm my sons appointee too. He's also crap with money so we have two accounts. One his benefits are paid into and a second one I trickle money into for spends that he has access too. I take out £75 per week towards food and bills but the rest is very much his. Any build up pays for us to take him on short breaks and holidays which he loves. Plus it covers our costs as carers when we take him out.as he can't go out alone.

It sounds like a good thing that he's spoken to the PIP people as it will shine some light on the situation. If he's being financially abused then they will be able to untangle that.

I must say though, it does sound like you might not be hearing the whole story. From what you've said he is quite severely disabled as he can't manage money or live independently. His mum is his carer and appointee. She makes sure that he's well fed and in appropriate clothing, she tops up his Oyster card so he isn't stuck in the house - but she won't provide a quid for a cold drink of water on a hot day? It just doesn't seem to add up.

Could your daughter not check with the mum when she picks him up? Say "We were planning on going swimming, does he have enough for entry?" It might give her a better idea of the financial set up.

Does he already have an ESA claim in place perhaps?

Have you actually spoken to his Mum about this or are you just hearing one side of the story here?

I would not say he's (serverly) disabled. But he does need alot if support . He could probably live is supported living or something like that. But I don't think he wants that .

Regarding food at home. He stays with my dd about 3 nights a week . So when he's eating there. He's eating her food which she is paying for. His mum knows his there and eating there he once asked for 10.00 so he could contribute to the food shop a bit. She told him if he want to eat he can go home . So he did . So he went in the kitchen at his house. Looked in the cupboard there is only food that belonged to his brother and his mum. So he could not eat . He say a bag of crisps so he opend it and started eating them. Him mum then starting shouting at him calling him a theif.

I also think it runs deeper than clothing and feeding him. I think there can still be a form of financial abuse even if she is supplying his basic needs

The oyster example. Yes if he says they are going swimming. His mum will top up his oyster so he can get there but not give him money to get into the pool. Or she will pay for the pool but no money for his oyster so dd ends up paying.

She told him if he want to eat he can go home . So he did . So he went in the kitchen at his house. Looked in the cupboard there is only food that belonged to his brother and his mum. So he could not eat . He say a bag of crisps so he opend it and started eating them. Him mum then starting shouting at him calling him a theif.

Well that's a massive dripfeed completely different story. If she's literally depriving him of food then it's a job for the police/social services.

His mum will top up his oyster so he can get there but not give him money to get into the pool. Or she will pay for the pool but no money for his oyster so dd ends up paying.

How is he expecting to get into the pool though? Does he not tell your daughter that he can't go as he doesn't have the cash? Or does he hope that when he arrives at the pool with no money she will pay?

OP I genuinely don’t think you or your daughter are the ones to intervene here. You can provide information to social services, his GP or whatever other services he may be known to do they can investigate and devise him a plan of action if it’s needed.

Your role here is to communicate his issues to those who are able to advocate for him with all the facts. Please stop posting suspicion and rumour. It’s not beneficial for him and your interference could make things much worse for him.

How would you feel if you or your daughter successfully managed to reallocate his benefits and his mother and brother had to move, fell out with him and his only option was to take substandard housing with minimal support? The right intervention can support the family as a unit or him alone. You could be creating conflict where there isn’t any currently, because again, you only seem to have his perspective on the situation.

I was not drip feeding. It was because of your post that I said that. Can't always remember every detail. But your post jogged my memory. Also the example I gave was a few months back . I'm not sure if its a regular thing. It did seem very odd that his mum told him to go to the house for food. But then she had no food for him.

Yes I think he just turns up with his stuff. So dd ends up paying.

I have not said anything to the mum/him. I just wanted people's thoughts.

The only thing my dd done was help him phone pip. To find out if there was a pip claim as his mum had said she had stopped claiming it. Which she admitted to lying about. Pip are now looking onto how it should be paid. So it's down to pip really

If he needs lots of help then his mum needs to be appointee or someone else but he cannot manage his money . Maybe his mum already gets UC for him too ? He should maybe talk with her about having controlled pocket money .
I often see this sort of thing with young adults and their perceptions are different from reality ( my oldest son has autism so I know a lot if autistic young adults and parents ) .
the best thing to do pior be talk directly with the mum , if you still think there is concern contact social services who will evaluate the situation .

As he's not working, someone really should put a claim in for UC for him so he gets National Insurance credits towards his pension.