HLTA covering two whole days every week?

[SuperSange]

Hi all; I've just found out that a HLTA in my daughters school is taking the class for two whole days a week. (Y3) we were told at the induction meeting that she was full time, but she has a full day PPA and another day for 'study', perhaps for an additional qualification, I do t know. I didn't know PPA was a full day, and surely they shouldn't have the TA for two full days? I'm minded to ask the school, but I'm not sure how to approach it with the head. Is it a common state of affairs, or is it worth asking?

I'd love to know where HLTAs work who are on a similar salary to an ECT.

I suppose if teachers can’t be recruited, or afforded, then the alternatives are staff who aren’t qualified teachers, or children having part time schooling.

What are schools to do? The tipping point has been reached, fewer people choose to train to teach and those that do, typically stay only a couple of years. Certainly five or less. The days of teaching as a long term career are gone, lost in the world of business, academies, performance management, cost cutting and executives with vast salaries and little experience of education, let alone teaching.

It’s shameful.

This isn’t true anymore, anecdotally at least. I’m a qualified primary teacher, out of the classroom since my son was born six years ago. I’m now working as a one to one in my county, despite not speaking the language, and being able to dictate my hours, despite the child I support having a designated number.

the headteacher has been advertising for assistants since Christmas and no one is applying. It’s the same across the county. She now can’t even get supply teachers, so I and the other assistants are covering staff absences. Luckily for her, I’m a qualified teacher and she sells that as such to the parents… but I can no longer afford to stay in the job. I’m being forced out of it by the sudden increase in the cost of living, which is a real shame, and a disaster for children that need the support.

@Bluevelvetsofa it's criminal really that the govt will move more towards Michaela style/ anyone can teach from the powerpoint/ cheap nqts/hltas instead of actually addressing the awful issues in education and with teaching. So many careers ruined.

Right? I worked as a TA for 8 years and the difference between my salary and a NQT on was £15k per year no idea where the PP claiming to make more as a TA was working but sign me up!

But if a teacher is earning twice as much, but working more than twice as many hours, then the TA is earning more per hour.

I’ve done both. I was earning more as a teacher, but more per hour as a TA

@airrrrAIRRRRiELLLL sadly this is no longer the case - schools are desperate for both teachers and TAs in the SE where I am, and in some cases the recruitment crisis for TAs is worse than for teachers. It’s becoming very very serious. My DC’s school keep sending out begging emails asking if anyone wants a job or knows anyone who wants a job 😱.

I would be very unhappy with this both as a parent and a teacher! That’s nearly half the week!!
It’s also really unfair on the HLTA who has neither the training nor the pay to do the job.
What’s the point of a degree/teacher training/NQT portfolios/observations etc if in fact it’s fine for an HLTA (who may have none of the above) to teach the class?

Certainly the case at my school.

Two classes being taught FT by TAs (only one a HLTA). I'm a TA. I'm regularly left with my class with zero notice. My teacher came in yesterday as I came back from lunch and announced that she'd just been told that she was on PPA that afternoon, so I was to run the class. One of my runners ended up roaming the halls all afternoon as I had no support to get him. Other TAs would occasionally scoop him up on his travels and bring him back, but as he wasn't in a headspace to be able to be in class, he wouldn't stay long and there was nothing I could do about it.

I'm not a qualified teacher (though I plan to be in a couple of years). I can manage the class, but I've had to figure it out, fast. And it means that the students that need my focused support aren't getting it.

I'm leaving very soon. I don't get paid enough to put up with it.

Yes. One way both teachers and TAs to earn a bit of a bonus is to introduce friends and family to the school. We can get £100 for persuading a relative to apply, twice that if they accept a job, and even more if they are a science or maths graduate

Yes. One way both teachers and TAs to earn a bit of a bonus is to introduce friends and family to the school. We can get £100 for persuading a relative to apply, twice that if they accept a job, and even more if they are a science or maths graduate

Many teachers are working for far less than £12 per hour. I certainly have done for many many years. Teachers salaries are larger, but their hours are typically well over double what TAs work, so pay per hour is low.

It's not really comparable though, teachers are salaried and like many other salaried professions, work outside of normal hours is common. TA's contracts are strict with the hours that they are paid for, and any time worked over is paid as OT.

But if a teacher is earning twice as much, but working more than twice as many hours, then the TA is earning more per hour.

That only is the case if that's what the teacher does, and that will vary from person to person. I worked with one teacher that definitely did not extra work outside of his directed time; he barely planned in his PPA.

It's not a very good measure to claim 'extra hours' means that a TA is better paid. It's a joke to me, as I could barely afford living and that's why I had to leave.

Every type of school will have different needs, expectations and cultures around how much work is expected of a teacher outside of their normal work hours/days

I know posters are saying it's not easy to recruit TAs, that may be true for experienced staff but in my town there is no shortage of inexperienced applicants and these are being welcomed with open arms. One school is actually using TAs with little or no experience for cover. It's a disaster and dangerous. Worse is when one of these TAs is taken on as a 1-to-1 and then has to cover the class on their own which leaves no one to cover the child that needs the 1-to-1. Parents we need you to complain really loudly! It's not fair on anyone.

HLTAs do have to get a qualification to get the job title. It’s obviously nowhere near as arduous as a PGCE, but they’re not totally unqualified either.

Get paid overtime?!
Do we fuck 😂

During my NQT year, my nursery nurse (because it was Reception) earnt more than I did. Under the role of a nursery nurse, she was at the top of her pay scale whereas I was at the start of mine. She got to leave at 4pm and in that first year, I often left at 6.30pm and always worked at home. So that felt a little disproportionate.

I've always said this. It actually undervalues the time and expense that goes into becoming a teacher.

There are two unqualified teachers (TAs) in my school who have their own classes and teach full time. I don't think the parents realise they're unqualified and to be fair, they are great at what they do. However, their salaries are around £26/27k and I can't help but think that's not bad when they won't have uni/teacher training loans to pay back and they haven't had to go through the time and stress of teacher training. I know there's no progression as their salaries are capped but I can see the positives too.

Thanks all for your replies. The salaries and respective workloads aren't my concern; that's on the head, not me. I think I'll email them and ask the question.

That’s on you. If you are on an hourly rate, and get told to stay longer, you bill the school. Clearly. If you don’t, you are a mug

this is why schools want qualified teachers. Because they can’t bill the school for overtime, whereas support staff can. This is the advantage of employing salaried staff for a school, as opposed to staff on an hourly rate, which works out far more expensive

One of my roles in school is to support the unqualified staff. We're a moderately sized secondary with UQTs solely responsible for teaching classes in a range of subjects, including English and maths.

It's totally legal. It's also completely irresponsible to put people without relevant qualifications and training in the position of being in charge of the educational progress of groups of children.

Welcome to Tory Britain, we've got the schools we voted for. If parents want to have qualified teachers teaching their children, reasonable class sizes (we have the largest class sizes in Europe), and a warm classroom in the winter, they need to vote for a party that will fund education sufficiently. To recruit and retain teachers, I really believe we need to reduce contact time and class sizes, to make the job bearable. That could be done by subject specialist teachers in PE, Science, Art, Music etc covering more PPA, but that costs money. You get what you pay for, if the British voter isn't willing to fund schools, our children will continue get a substandard education by international standards.

Not true! When my HLTA covers, she marks the work. If I'm out of class it's because I'm doing something else...I can't possibly mark work done when I'm not there, on top of everything else I'm doing as well! I need to sleep occasionally 🤦‍♀️

I really believe we need to reduce contact time and class sizes, to make the job bearable. That could be done by subject specialist teachers in PE, Science, Art, Music etc covering more PPA

The biggest teacher shortages are in secondary, not primary, they’re just more visible in primary.

This just isn't the case in many schools now. None of our (well qualified and experienced) TAs are school mums from our school.

Our TAs aren't just classrooms assistants. They are fully engaged members of the teaching staff, leading and specialising in various interventions, coming in with various qualifications inc degrees and some with teaching qualifications, and and if not they've been their years and are very experienced at the job.

Almost all of our TAs are full time, and this includes inset, after school meetings, training courses, etc.

And yes, these people are harder to find as many schools expect much more for a low salary.

But overall this level of qualified experienced TA will be beneficial to the teaching and learning in the school, in my experience.

The 'school mums' you speak of at our school are coming in to volunteer, but aren't paid members of staff. And these days those volunteers can equally be dad, grandparents or much older siblings gaining work experience.